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dirtbag
climber
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Jan 30, 2019 - 12:14pm PT
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So did yesterday’s vote accomplish anything? Doesn’t seem like it.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 30, 2019 - 12:17pm PT
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The Europeans are being pissy vindictive dicks about this, but what else is new?
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
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Jan 30, 2019 - 12:40pm PT
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The Europeans?? The premise that England can have it's cake and eat it too was always a fantasyland lie. There is nothing the EU could do, beyond giving the UK full rights of membership with none of the responsibilities, that would appease all of the different factions of parliament. Nor should the EU do anything more, England built its bed.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 30, 2019 - 12:43pm PT
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And just how would it hurt les pissants to give Britain a fair trade deal? It takes two to tango
and when both are in step both benefit. No, this is about butthurt, pure and simple.
The Finns, Hungarians, Italians, and Dutch would love to bail but they’re afraid to.
No matter, the sh!tshow will fail eventually.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Jan 30, 2019 - 12:47pm PT
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How can they have any pudding, if they don't eat their meat?
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Climberdude
Trad climber
Clovis, CA
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Jan 30, 2019 - 03:37pm PT
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EU, please tell May that she may go f#$k herself. Tell her you gave her a deal, take it or STFU. Putin is laughing all the way to the bank on this situation.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jan 30, 2019 - 08:58pm PT
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And just how would it hurt les pissants to give Britain a fair trade deal? It takes two to tango
and when both are in step both benefit. No, this is about butthurt, pure and simple.
The Finns, Hungarians, Italians, and Dutch would love to bail but they’re afraid to.
No matter, the sh!tshow will fail eventually.
Gee. It's almost like if less piss ants gave the UK all the benefits of membership without the obligations everybody else would want that and the EU would fall apart.
The confusing part, can't quite put my finger on it, is why the EU would oppose that.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jan 30, 2019 - 09:08pm PT
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The lesson here, is that England, with the approximate GDP of Calif, is withdrawing from the EU, with the approximate GDP of the US.......is a good predictor of how much of a mess CA withdrawing from the Union would be.
As part of the EU, the English enjoy many advantages that cover up it's deficiencies.
They made the irrational decision to throw that over the side, for pride and for fear. They are now going to enjoy the gradual deterioration that had been going on for a century, rather than shoring things up through collaboration.
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jaaan
Trad climber
Chamonix, France
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Jan 31, 2019 - 07:50am PT
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If god put them on an island, it was for a good reason.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jan 31, 2019 - 08:05am PT
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How can they have any pudding, if they don't eat their meat?
You owe me drycleaning on this shirt....
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jan 31, 2019 - 08:11am PT
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I was a journalist (Daily Express, Sunday Mirror, editor of magazines, etc) for seven years in London (brief stint in North Wales), and have now lived in Ireland for over 23 years (Sunday Business Post, Evening Herald, The Irish Times, launch editor Irish Communications, etc), I have also lived and worked in France.
Brexit is an issue I probably follow far more closely than some of the commentators on this thread.
Reading some of the comments makes me both want to laugh and cringe.
It is basically a clusterf*ck by the Little Englanders.
To claim it is the EU being prissy is false. Like somebody has already mentioned, the Brits (excluding Scotland and Northern Ireland, who voted to stay in, except for the DUP in the North), and make that more so the English, want their cake and eat it too.
May, her cabinet and the EU signed a deal, now she (and of course the Brexiteers) want(s) to renege on it. The EU is not going to throw a member state, Ireland, under the bus, just to suit some crybaby state that is leaving. But the Irish border is not the main issue, though some make it to be.
And it is not Ireland’s fault that there are some in England who still believe in Rule Britannia. Don’t blame the Irish or the EU for the impasse, it lies clearly in England. Though the uninformed and/or know-it-alls may try to blame the EU.
Just my opinion, but I believe I am quite informed on the subject.
Having read this thread (all of it) since day one that the OP started it, it occurs to me that those people who think that the UK is right in leaving the EU, are much the same people who think Trump is doing a good job. Funny that.
The EU is working but needs some big-time reforms, so does the American (US) system. The so-called populists in the EU want to either destroy it or run it totally their way, which is scary. That is not democracy and neither is the way Trump and his party are trying to dictate their whims to all of the US. Ignoring much of the Constitution. Which is also frightening. And also ignoring common sense and science.
There are parallels there, between current events in both the EU and US.
Early on, in this thread, several people mentioned that this whole affair was started by David Cameron (then PM) who was afraid of the increasing UKIP presence, and called the referendum, and misjudged it. How? Well, for one, there were a lot of mistruths, disinformation and misinformation – let’s call a spade spade – lies by the Leave side (Cambridge Analytica anyone? I have been following Mercer for years).
And the gullible swallowing those falsehoods.
And yes, a lot of disenfranchised people, especially in northern England (much like the US Rustbelt, so to speak, I hope it is a decent analogy) being disenchanted with their lot in life. So it is understandable that they want to see change. And they believed what was shoveled to them.
Sort of like, the 2016 elections. Hmmm.
A lot of ill-informed or ignorant opinions on this thread. I do not mean that to be insulting, it just appears that way to me. Perhaps I am wrong.
That is how I see it. My two cents.
Patrick
NB
But then, I am just a journalist and fake, right? As for science, being a zoologist does not count. Who cares about animals.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jan 31, 2019 - 08:35am PT
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The Finns, Hungarians, Italians, and Dutch would love to bail but they’re afraid to.
No matter, the sh!tshow will fail eventually.
BS. The Finns and the Dutch do not, I have seen the respective polls in those countries. The now right-wing leadership in both Hungary and Italy (and Poland) do not want to bail, they want to take over and rule the EU their way.
So go blow it out your nose, Mr Know-It-All.
EDIT
There are several camps that want to see the EU fail. They are, to name a few: Putin, Trump, and the nationalist/populists right-wing authoritarians.
This is not my conspiracy theory or others. Look at the rhetoric, the behaviour, the actions of those I mentioned. It is there to see if one does not have blinders or rose-tinted glasses on.
It is understandable in a way. The EU is a powerful bloc, together.
So is the US, and Putin is trying to build a new 'Soviet Union', another powerful bloc. So is China, and in ways, Brazil, India and others. Hegemony, seemingly my country's (US) policy for years. And others. It is human nature to want to rule, or have the best. (I sure would like to win the EuroMillions tomorrow night, MONEY, if not just to pay the bills, hah hah.)
It is called competition, for power, for control, resources, land, what have you. It is nothing new in human nature. However, is it done through true democracy, or terror, fear and brute force?
Having lived in the EU for over 30 years and being a Californian for over 62 years, I am just glad I never had to live under the thumb of right-wing or left-wing authoritarians, dictators, despots... you know, the sort of people Trump admires.
So, if my math is correct, I now have contributed four cents to the conversation. A paltry sum.
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 31, 2019 - 08:44am PT
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Thanks for the in-depth commentary on this Patrick .....
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jan 31, 2019 - 08:50am PT
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Well thank you Werner, I hope you are sincere in that. (EDIT: However, hardly in-depth, far from it.) it is I am sincere in what I write. Whether I am correct or not, time will tell.
Patrick
EDIT
I am sure glad that the Taco Stand has an edit button, as I read back through my posts, good gawd! And I HAVE edited some of the best journalists and writers in Ireland and Britain.
Shhh, don't let them see my posts here.
I have always, always, said, every writer needs an editor, or at least another set of eyes to look over what they write. Though my former editor on Business Plus, who is one of the best writers I have known (better than I am) and a top financial journalist (one of the best, anywhere), he did not agree with me, he thought his writing was fine (and it usually was, drat, darn it).
I would tell him what I thought and we would argue (remember, he paid me), "You little shit", he would say, "Well, you are a big dickhead," I would reply. Then we would go for pints.
Another EDIT
I think in the past 13 plus years on the Taco Stand, it shows, I have not had the benefit of an editor. Some of the shite I have posted. Shooting my mouth (fingers) off. I had better get out of Dodge fast.
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Blakey
Trad climber
Sierra Vista
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Jan 31, 2019 - 09:41am PT
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The end of the beginning is in sight, and we seem to be accelerating towards it.
I have no faith that our parliamentarians will sort this out and would not be surprised if neither side, the UK or EU blink and we tumble into a 'no deal' departure.
We have over here had some stunningly sh#t commentaries about 'no deal' being 'no problem'..... Some of our most odious and untrustworthy politicos are at the heart of this narrative; Jacob Rees-Mogg, David Davis, Liam Fox, and the rest of the 'ERG'...…
All credible forecasts indicate it will have a huge negative impact on our economy, the irony is that it will impact most on the poorest/deprived and they typically are amongst the most ardent supporters of leave.
Steve
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jan 31, 2019 - 10:20am PT
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Yes Blakey, it is winding down and a no-deal looks likely. Not good. For anyone, not even the hard-line Brexiteers… they may think it is, but their stance will come back and bite them in the butt.
I do not want to see that, for the good of both the UK and the EU (and Ireland), yet ironically I would like to see them have to eat crow down the end of the day, it would be sort of gratifying.
How selfish of me. I get my Irish citizenship this year (I could have done it years go, but… I sort of feel, like my family came over from England to America in 1640, well, hard to explain, I am a Yank. But I will still retain my US citizenship, and be an EU citizen, not too shabby.)
But no, it is going to f*ck the UK, Britain, mess up the EU equilibrium, and Ireland perhaps more than most of the remaining EU states. Brexit is bad. If the people who voted to Leave just knew the truth and realities. Britain cannot stand alone anymore, it does not rule the seas.
It has become a strong cornerstone in the EU, as it should be for a number of reasons (economically, historically, socially, to name a few). It needs to stay in the EU to help change the reforms needed, only the sensibilities of Germany and perhaps sangfroid France (what? the passionate French, cool? I worked there), and perhaps Spain, and Holland and…. can help to reform the EU.
It needs reform, but it is a good idea. A Federal Union? That is tough. The US, its people and citizens, have a common identity (some may not agree) where a federal union, yet with state identity, is easier to achieve.
Does the EU need Britain? (Not the UK, Scotland will leave, just watch, and there goes the union.) No the EU will survive unless forces in countries such as Hungary, Poland and Italy can upset the balance. Otherwise the EU is strong despite Putin and Trump.
Can the UK survive without the EU. Now, that is the million-dollar question.
Will the US survive? We are stronger than those who want to destroy us. And some of those desotryers may be within, very within. I hope not.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 31, 2019 - 11:32am PT
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the EU is strong
That’s rich, I guess you don’t read The Economist.
Mr Know-It-All (sometimes it is a burden being right all the time)
You really can’t stand someone who doesn’t agree with you, can you?
And as for your polls on the Finns and the Dutch we all know how much polls are worth.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jan 31, 2019 - 12:25pm PT
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(sometimes it is a burden being right all the time)
Jaysus, that must be a heavy burden, like Christ on the cross.
Reilly, you are not one of a kind. You may think you are. You are just a load of shite in my opinion, as I am sure you think the same of me.
Why I even respond to you is my fault and weakness. People like you are best ignored.
I go on what I know, what I research, what I see. For a long time on this forum we have both disagreed with one another. I see you as being full of bullsh#t, a know-it-all, you have even admitted to it both in a jocular sense and in a 'true' sense.
I am honest with myself, I make mistakes. But you, like your idol (and do not claim he is not, your posts speak otherwise, perhaps in 'coded' words, you are not stupid, I'll give you that), to iterate, like your Trump, you are deluded. You think you know it all.
Look back over all of your posts, and I admit I have not seen them all, thank the heavens, but I would wonder if you have ever admitted you were wrong or mistaken.
Reilly, I think your name dropping and your jet-setting and worldwide travels that you claim, but what have you really learned?
I disagree with a number of people on this forum, I try to understand and perhaps respect most of their opinions, but of all of them, I think you are the biggest bullshitter.
Just my opinion.
Fire away dude, you will not get a response, I will give you the last word. You will need it.
Bye bye lad.
watch the ceiling, it may cave in on you one day.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jan 31, 2019 - 12:30pm PT
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You really can’t stand someone who doesn’t agree with you, can you?
Reilly, you could never be so wrong.
Nice try though. Weak, very weak. Just like you. Weak tea.
Just go have lunch or dinner with your world-class economist mates, and politicians and everybody else you deem significant that you have name dropped on this forum.
I am sure they are impressed with you.
I am not.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Jan 31, 2019 - 12:42pm PT
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Oh Reilly, I said you could get the last word in.
But I just had to respond. I have time for anybody's well-thought out and sensible, rational opinion. You have presented some thought-provoking statements that have made me think in the past. I will give you that.
But it is your ego. You just cannot seem to get past that, can you? Not as far as I can see. Perhaps I cannot see that far. But over the years I just see you as an egotistical blowhard. A blaggard, who knows a bit.
You are too weak and scared to admit your mistakes, your faults, to admit when you are wrong and to see it it, too afraid to rectify your faults. So you bluff with bravado. You brag. It covers your inadequacies, and gives you a temporary high. A false sense of being. But at the end of the day, your words reveal a weakling. It is up to you Reilly to correct your faults, not me, I can just try and to point them out.
Only you can change your behaviour, tackle your weaknesses. I have mine and I am still struggling with some of them. But I recognize them and try and to address them. You should do the same Reilly. You may feel a burden lifted off of you.
Perhaps Trump should try the same.
It is your insecurity that rules you Reilly, and that you may rue someday.
Now truly, I do not have anymore time for you, so go and get the last word, on my mother's grave I will not respond, even if you were to try and to insult my late mom, which would be your style to get a response that would feed your ego, I will not bite anymore.
EDIT
Hey Reilly, I am told you are actually a nice guy, and a decent climber. Just chuck the ego. It would do the world a good. Hah hah.
I have to be honest, when I was 14 I told my mom I was the smartest guy in the world. Boy was it a let down when I found I was not anywhere near it. Reilly, you wouldn't be 14? Perchance?
Patrick
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