OT: UK Separating From EU?

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johntp

Trad climber
socal
Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 22, 2016 - 06:35pm PT
Have been watching the BBC news channel this evening.

Interesting stuff. What do our UK and EU climbers have to say?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 22, 2016 - 07:03pm PT
My extended family from england.. they want out!
I told em to build a wall around the ISLAND..
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 22, 2016 - 10:29pm PT
Bumping for our friends across the pond.
phylp

Trad climber
Upland, CA
Jun 22, 2016 - 10:39pm PT
This is a fascinating event. I have been following the stories about it for months. I am so interested to hear the results of the Brexit vote.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 22, 2016 - 10:48pm PT
If they pull out it will be painful for a few years until they get it
sorted out and then they'll be glad they did. You gotta know that there
are a lot of Euros who want out, too, but are too scared. Finland, Holland,
Germany, and even the Italians are talking about bailing. It is highly
unlikely any of them will but that limp wristedness is what has gotten
them all in trouble in the past. I would put a modest amount on the Brits
staying as the devil you know is worse than the devil you don't know, eh?
The EU technocrats are completely out of control, literally, and answerable
to nobody. It is a mess, or a bureaucrat's dream, depending on yer bent.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 22, 2016 - 11:32pm PT
I am mixed on it. Most of my family is from there, they want to stay in. I personally never thought the EU would work, but it was a good try.

We are damn lucky we had visionary founding fathers who early on recognized the need for a strong central government. Otherwise we would be a mini-Europe. The state's rights folks (Bundy et al) would like to go to that sort of system, it would be a disaster.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Jun 22, 2016 - 11:39pm PT


Brexit: What Is It About?
By Paul Craig Roberts

June 22, 2016 "Information Clearing House" - If you read the presstitute media, Brexit—the referendum tomorrow on the UK’s exit from the EU— is about racism. According to the story line, angry rightwing racists of violent inclinations want to leave the EU to avoid having to accept more dark-skinned immigrants into England.

Despite the constant propaganda against exit, polls indicated that more favored leaving the EU than remaining until a female member of Parliament, Jo Cox, was killed by a man that a witness said shouted “Brexit.” Cox was an opponent of leaving the EU.

The UK government and presstitute media used Cox’s murder to drive home the propaganda that violent racists were behind Brexit. However, other witnesses gave a different report. The Guardian, which led with the propaganda line, did report later in its account that “Other witnesses said the attack was launched after the MP became involved in an altercation involving two men near where she held her weekly surgery.” Of course, we will never know, because Cox’s murder is too valuable of a weapon against Brexit.

There is no doubt that many in the UK are disturbed at the transformation of their country. One doesn’t have to be a racist to feel that one’s country is being stolen from them by people of alien cultures. The British have a long history of fighting off invaders, and many believe they are experiencing an invasion, although not an armed one. An armed one, of course, would not have the government’s and media’s support.

When British people hear pundits pronounce that immigrants contribute more to the UK than they absorb in social payments, what they hear is inconsistent with their experience. Moreover,
many British are tired of having to avoid entire sections of their cities, including London, because of safety concerns.

It is a propaganda choice to call these concerns racism rather than cultural defense, and the UK political establishment has made that propaganda choice. Little wonder so many British citizens no longer believe that the British Establishment represents Britain.

But let’s give the propagandists the benefit of the doubt and for sake of argument assume that Brexit is about racism. What is the opposition to Brexit really about? Most certainly it is not about helping the refugees from Washington’s wars that the UK government has enabled. If the British establishment cared so much for the Muslims seeking refuge from America’s invasions, bombs, and drones, the British establishment would not have supported Washington’s attacks on these people.

Opposition to Brexit is based on two powerful interests of Washington.

One is the interests of the New York banks and Wall Street to eliminate the UK as a financial center competitor. This blatant fact has escaped the notice of the City and the Bank of England.

The British have forgotten that they only have one foot in the EU, because the UK was permitted to keep its own currency. The UK does not use the euro and, thus, retains the power to finance the British government. Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy, France, Germany, etc., do not have this capability. They are dependent on private banks for financing.

In order to trick the UK into joining the EU, the British were given special privileges. However, these privileges cannot last forever. The EU process is one of political integration. As I reported years ago, Jean-Claude Trichet, at that time the president of the European Central Bank, said that to complete the political integration of Europe, the fiscal policies of member states would be centralized. It is impossible to centralize fiscal policies if the UK is an independent financial center with its own central bank and currency.

Wall Street understands that the defeat of Brexit means a shortened lifespan for London as a financial center, as it is impossible to be a financial center unless a country has its own currency and central bank. As it is impossible for the UK to be a member of the EU and not operate under the European Central Bank, once the Brexit referendum is defeated, the process of gradually forcing the UK into the euro will begin.

The other powerful interest is the interest of Washington to prevent one country’s exit from leading to the exit of other countries. As CIA documents found in the US National Archives make clear, the EU was a CIA initiative, the purpose of which is to make it easy for Washington to exercise political control over Europe. It is much easier for Washington to control the EU than 28 separate countries. Moreover, if the EU unravels, so likely would NATO, which is the necessary cover for Washington’s aggression.

The EU serves Washington and the One Percent. It serves no one else. The EU is a murderer of sovereignty and peoples. The intent is for the British, French, Germans, Italians, Greeks, Spanish, and all the rest to disappear as peoples. Brexit is the last chance to defeat this hidden agenda, and apparently the British will vote tomorrow without having a clue as to what is at stake and what the vote is about.

Dr. Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Economic Policy and associate editor of the Wall Street Journal. He was columnist for Business Week, Scripps Howard News Service, and Creators Syndicate. He has had many university appointments. His internet columns have attracted a worldwide following.
Sredni Vashtar

Social climber
out in front
Jun 22, 2016 - 11:44pm PT
I'd prefer we stay in to drive forward reform. I see the pros but also the cons. It does need some fixing
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jun 22, 2016 - 11:45pm PT
presstitute is a good one
Blakey

Trad climber
Sierra Vista
Jun 23, 2016 - 12:10am PT
It's 08:03 here and I will be going out to vote soon. I will be voting 'In'. The political campaign by both sides has been very unpleasant and the arguments poorly put (to say the least!).

Most annoyingly it is a referendum that shouldn't be taking place, being promised by a PM who was concerned about losing votes to UKIP in the last General Election.

The negative impacts of leaving are significant, and long term. It will be very close, I have my fingers crossed we stay!

Steve
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 23, 2016 - 02:41am PT
Looks like the Brits have very little exposure - for Greece, anyway, mostly because they kept their own currency.

http://www.bloombergbriefs.com/content/uploads/sites/2/2015/01/MS_Greece_WhoHurts.pdf

Islandman

Trad climber
Different Euro Islands
Jun 23, 2016 - 06:16am PT
EU citizen living in the UK.
I agree with Blakey... Lame PM promised the referendum to win an election vs UKIP... and it's snowballed into a sh#t flinging, full of fud and lies contest.

The UK is better served staying and actually for once starting to take European politics seriously. Reform is necessary in the EU and it is best to contribute to the debate rather than leave and put their heads in the sand.

Leave and return after it reforms? Who said that is going to happen in a hurry... joining after leaving might take decades and by then the EU could have reformed and found that life without the UK isn't that bad.

Personally if leave wins, the family and I will be moving to the other side of the pond because luckily we have the possibility... anyone know good places to climb/hike at the Adirondaks or places to surf near NYC?
pierref

Trad climber
france
Jun 23, 2016 - 06:34am PT
From a french

i hope really the remain. UK pull europ towards the economic mainstream (i.e. open and global market). If brexit the risk is to see Europ moving towards a more or less socialist form of economy driven by france and at a lesser extent spain and greece.
And history shows that socialism usually fails in a liberal world
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Jun 23, 2016 - 09:15am PT
However it plays out, the takeaway for me, is that the ruling elites, forgot they are in a Democratic environment. They decided Unification would be best and started making decisions that a large number of voters aren't happy with.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-23/political-shock-coming-no-matter-which-side-wins-brexit

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 23, 2016 - 01:03pm PT
So it is 2100 in Jolly Olde and their voting system is so archaic they
can't say what the results are yet? Bloody 'ell!

edit:
My bad, I guess they stay open til 2200. Crikey, they gotta make a
career of voting?

Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jun 23, 2016 - 01:25pm PT
My bad, I guess they stay open til 2200. Crikey, they gotta make a
career of voting?

In fact, they'll be staying open longer than that. The huge rainstorms in England have caused problems with public transport, and also forced some polling stations to be moved. So they've announced that anyone who is in line to vote by 10 pm will be allowed to vote.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 23, 2016 - 01:37pm PT
Wow. I'd assumed the polls close at 20:00 GMT, but my secretary, who is from Birmingham (England, not Alabama) corrected me. She and her family favor the exit, by the way, but her family has been saying they expect it to lose. We shall soon see, I guess.

John
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Jun 23, 2016 - 04:47pm PT
The GBP, just dropped like a rock.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 23, 2016 - 04:58pm PT
That's still 3 cents above 2 weeks ago. NBD
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 23, 2016 - 05:41pm PT
Im seeing an OUT
Messages 1 - 20 of total 289 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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