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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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healyje,
you can gather all the studies you want as to how we interact within this environment--Strawman arguments to the point of space travel because they[your axioms] do not disprove that we can live otherwise. You need studies to show that we can not live away from earth [even with whatever makeup adaptions we might invent] to have much of a point.
Space travel is obviously not likely to be like living in Oregon.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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rick S,
Dingus' zeal for cynicism perfectly illustrates the loss of vision that has gripped the nation's of the west.
Some of us don't have our vision focused on the stars but our visions do exist and are focused on what are the real threats and what are the feasible solutions -- some very locally. We do not take the mere lip service of the Scott Kellys or the Steven Hawkings as factual but ask how would they know such and such when we know such and such otherwise. It all begins with the willingness to think critically of the thoughts of those around us that spew. Everyone has problems and often propose some solution. With limited resources -- a fact as it is -- we need priorities as to why such and such a course of action has the better payoff. There is not much of a payoff for manned space travel. We have far more urgent issues.
And there yu have it. Thinking this way is defacto a loss of vision. I am not looking at the stars [astrology?] for a solution.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Moosedrool,
our nation is polarized.
Nothing new. It always has been even during wars we still had bleary eyed democrats and ignorant republicans fighting for the fronts seats while using any of the political scams possible.
Polarizations will never end because we fight for the group we are with by behavioral instincts. Well, maybe some retro virus therapy could change our brains so we do not feel such and such a way when such and such arize?
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Rick S,
if the trip were 10 cents I would fund the whole thing.
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Bushman
Social climber
Elk Grove, California
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When our Martian Colonies revolt, the French will be there to help them. Hail Freedonia!
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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How many environmental organizations do you belong to Ed? Please name them, then refresh our memories of your job description with D.O.D. (your function a few years back anyway).
I belong to no environmental organizations, unless you consider AAAS and APS to be. I am recently a member of the Biological Field Studies Association which manages the Cleary Reserve for use by biologists primarily for teaching. This is an organization my wife has been involved in for a very long time.
I never worked for the DoD, only for the DOE as a contractor (as is the lot of work at the National Labs). My activities span a very wide range from arcane basic physics to quite practical stuff pertinent to national security. I am a physicist and contribute as I can to many matters of importance to the lab program. Most recently I am working on the National Ignition Facility studying inertial confinement fusion.
The composition of those who do work in national security should be as broad as possible to benefit from the wider perspective. The national security benefits because of that breadth.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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You need studies to show that we can not live away from earth [even with whatever makeup adaptions we might invent] to have much of a point.
It's not a matter of 'studies', but of common sense if you understand the biology involved.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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healyje,
It's not a matter of 'studies', but of common sense if you understand the biology involved.
It seems like you have no understanding of necessary conditions vs. sufficient conditions with regard to offering up your common sense babble that would simply nail space travel as impossible.
Please tell us the necessary conditions for life that exists here on Earth exclusively and whose conditions could not be created in some way sufficient for some forms of Earth life to live elsewhere. An answer would seem easy with all that common sense you spew.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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We're not talking about 'some forms of Earth life', we're talking homo sapiens and in that context the answer is easy - the conditions behind your knee, in your armpit, your mouth, lungs and the conditions in your gut.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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healyje,
we're talking homo sapiens and in that context the answer is easy - the conditions behind your knee, in your armpit, your mouth, lungs and the conditions in your gut.
Yes, were are talking homo sapiens. So to choose one, what conditions are necessary for the armpits that are found only on Earth and cannot be provided in any manner while on a space mission? So far you have told me a lot locations on the body but not the specific function that would be missing and why it cannot be surrogated.
Could you present some evidence/research that there is no way to duplicate such a process while in space that the human armpit needs or otherwise it degenerates and dies? What happens when what you call the necessary conditions do not prevail in the armpit?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Your body only functions and retains a healthy immune system throughout and on your body due to the balance between human and non-human cells. Both of those cell types are finely tuned to this planet. How well tuned? The bacteria colonizing your armpit and my armpit are more similar than the bacteria colonizing your armpit and those in the back of your knee. That well tuned. The non-human cells which influence your immune system are exposed to all manner of other non-human cells from the environment and establish an equilibrium that depends on the ecology here on this planet.
Again, any closed-loop ecology will lack sufficient scale to accommodate the requisite ecological 'infrastructure' necessary to maintain the equilibrium at work in and on your body. An interstellar space ship in 45 years would look a lot like loading your fridge up with food, unplugging it and coming back 45 days later. It isn't rocket science and no rocket science can 'solve' the problem.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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healyje,
that was well presented. thank you.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Rick S,
there you have it from healyje. when yu bs tards return from Mars you'll be a moldy looking bunch.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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I call bullshit on mr. Healyj. Bacteria has been present on this planet for billions of years and are incredibly adaptive and resilient. They thrive on and throughout our bodies and all habitats we have been able to impose on them. They'll continue their prescense in us an around us in any extraterrestrial environment that we are capable of surviving, be it a bubble above or a cavern beneath.
Ed, I could have sworn you mentioned affiliation with the Sierra Club, had a role in tending our nuke stockpile, and wrote articles warning us that some routes (or even most) and earthly environs should be off limits lest we disturb the delicate lichen's or other micro ecologies. This, less than 3 years ago.
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WBraun
climber
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You'll never make it to other planets without a passport.
Without a passport all you'll see is barren dust.
The master of the Universe is in full control of all the material planets including you puny little arrogant earthlings who think they're so smart.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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The masters have infused all corners of the universe with life. Go, vibrate your way there, observe for yourself, and report the obvious back to us oh Smoking Duck.
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WBraun
climber
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I already said there's life in the entire cosmic manifestation but earthlings like Healy said can not inhabit other planets in their earthling material bodies.
One must transmigrate their spiritual soul from their earth body into the body of their chosen planet life forms .....
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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What do you think this IT revolution is leading up to?
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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My recollection about the streaks seen seasonally on Mars, now attributed to the presence of water, are thought to be extremely high in salts in order to retain fluidity at the nighttime temperatures. If there is a source of liquid water high in minerals, that is a potential environment for bacterial growth. On earth, Halobacterium Halobium requires extremely high dissolved salts for survival.
Another interesting book I was called upon to review by Amazon, Life Beyond Earth, by Athena Coustenis and Therese Encrenaz, is a detailed and non-trivial treatment of the subject. Both authors are affiliated with Laboratorie d'Etudes Spatiales et d'Instrumentation en Astrophysique, Paris Observatory, France.
The first 2/3 of the book, I felt, was excellent in approach; only when the chemistry arose was I somewhat disappointed in their commentary. Only when the authors descended into raw speculation on other forms of chemistry-based life forms did I shake my head; liquid methane based life could be hypothecated on paper, but would be totally impractical as various "metabolic reactions" would proceed at an abysmally slow rate for the systems to potentially evolve in the entire future lifetime of the known universe.
Treatment of the "habitable zone," and NASA's "follow the water" approach was handled adequately.
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WBraun
climber
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The gross materialists fail at everything they do .....
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