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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 22, 2012 - 12:40am PT
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Another thread, shot to hell.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Jul 22, 2012 - 12:47am PT
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+1, MrE!!!
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jul 22, 2012 - 02:09am PT
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this is all theory of course, and maybe a good shot would have been impossible but those odds would have gone up with say,, 25 carriers there that night also.
Christ, I can imagine 26 bullets being shot from all angles, and being in the middle of THAT.
I was very dissapointed with our local natl guard after the IHOP shootings when the commander decided to not ALOW them to wear the uniforms when going to lunch as to "avoid" being a target,, instead of INSISTING they carry their issued side arm..But THATS where we are at...
Sounds like another statement from someone who doesn't understand that the person known to be carrying, or an authority figure is the first to be killed.
The bodyguard is the first target.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jul 22, 2012 - 02:11am PT
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[quote]There are a number of off-the-shelf ways to have killed EVERYONE in that theater. Theaters are death traps for a lunatic.If you could magically wish guns all away tomorrow those options would still exist and would certainly have been figured out by this guy. Shall I list all the mass-murders accomplished with no bullets?[/quote]
Please.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Jul 22, 2012 - 07:32pm PT
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gun nuts talking about what they'd do to criminals
The real issue is probably not gun laws but why Americans are so violent in the first place. Americans love to fantasize about violence, whether it be what they'd do to criminals, or 'jihadis' in the middle east. Throughout the media you'll find quotes of people who say how much they'd love to personally murder James Holmes. I don't know how they can feel this way. I don't feel personally connected to the incident at all. There is no way to defend the crime - and to answer another question, many lawyers would take this case, just for the free TV exposure.
James Holmes spent many months fantasizing of how he was going to vent his own rage. Odd that America has more than its share of psycho killers, and lynch mobs, both. That's why I say that the real issue is violence and the way American society sees violence as positive and respectable. Not only swaggering cowboys, but John Q Public wants to get revenge. I dont understand it.
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
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Jul 22, 2012 - 07:39pm PT
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Its Sunday...
You guys should have gone climbing.... It was great.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Jul 22, 2012 - 07:48pm PT
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Seems like these mass shootings have a copy-cat theme to them...Monkey see , monkey do...
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jul 22, 2012 - 07:55pm PT
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Schizophrenia usually manifests itself in males between 18 and 25. Females a few years later.
Back when these people would be institutionalized as soon as the started manifesting symptoms. The state mental hospitals were huge places with tens of thousands of patients (inmates). That all ended in the 70's with the confluence of the patients rights movement and the co-current drive to cut budgets.
Now those that would have been warehoused wander the skid rows, and occasionally go to grad school and buy guns.
There's the conundrum; How do you identify, treat and if required incarcerate the dangerous without violating the rights of the just quirky and odd?
Plenty of them extant in these parts.
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
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Jul 22, 2012 - 07:57pm PT
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Locker,
LOL
EDIT: Locker, please note that I did post here early on... Now its just the same debate that always takes place re: this topic.
Enjoy your day y'all!
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jul 22, 2012 - 08:05pm PT
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There is a story running now about a gun range in Colorado that the perp applied to shoot at. The manager was so creeped out by the guy and the message on his answering machine that they denied his request.
The message in a "deep, guttural, forced voice" prompted Glenn Rotkovich, founding partner of the Lead Valley Range in Byers, Colo., to tell his staff, "If this guy shows up, he gets nothing until I meet him."
Too kooky to shoot at a gun range? now that is kooky. (j/k with that last comment.)
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Jul 22, 2012 - 08:18pm PT
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Has anybody mentioned Heaven's Gate, Jim Jones, the Bush family or the Manson family yet?
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 22, 2012 - 08:59pm PT
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Now a days most of the mental patients are in Yosemite, all crazy, and climbing the walls ......
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damo62
Social climber
Brisbane
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Jul 22, 2012 - 09:17pm PT
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LOL best quote yet Verner, you auld codger.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Jul 22, 2012 - 10:20pm PT
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Lotta quarterbacks 'round here.
Imagine it...twenty concealed carriers, including you, are there....smoke filled theatre, dark, screaming people running everywhere, rounds going off for real and on the screen/surround sound, tear gas choking you, here's comes a guy dressed in SWAT looking gear shooting...is he the shooter? is he a cop? should I shoot him? I've got half a second to decide, twenty concealed carriers now all firing creating a massive maze of crossfire...you manage to get three rounds into center of mass...but sh#t, he's wearing a vest so all you did was draw attention to yourself as a threat. Now he's coming at you, now what? Can you make a head shot with the massive adrenaline dump? Did you just kill six other people with your strays that didn't hit him?
The Dirty Harry posturing here is a little out of hand.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Jul 23, 2012 - 12:09am PT
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Werner...When those crazy schizo climbers get in a bind they usually notify their next of kin....SAR...
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jul 23, 2012 - 01:05am PT
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"Props to Obama..."
I wish he'd say something about this year's murders in San Bernardino. There have been more than twice as many killings in Berdoo this year ( and it's only July ) than there were in Aurora.
Just because San Bernardino's murders didn't happen all at once is no reason for Obama to ignore them.
His selective sympathy makes some of us feel left out for what we can only guess are purely partisan political reasons.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 23, 2012 - 01:09am PT
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The president has little choice but to speak if not be present at scenes of disaster, and would be savagely criticized if he did not do so. (Remember Georgie, and Katrina?)
That said, you're quite right - the ongoing disaster of violence and guns in the US takes a terrible toll, but as the only effective solution involves effective gun control, no president would dare speak out about it.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jul 23, 2012 - 05:24am PT
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The arguments of the rabidly PRO-gun contingent are at best specious.
I don't care that you have guns or how many guns you have, my argument isn't about taking away your guns.
But on hearing the hackneyed argument that if he didn't have guns he would have found another equally deadly way to attack I have to respond BULLSH#T!!!
This was a GUN crime. Facilitated by easy access to unnecessary weapons and overly lax or non existent background checks. You can defend your right to bear arms but will you blindly defend this monsters right to also bear arms, including an assault rifle. All of his armament and weaponry was purchased legally from unscrupulous merchants to whom profit trumps prudence every time.
With out the ease of attaining guns and ammo this sack of human garbage would not have done this unspeakable crime. Seriously do you imagine he would have planned this if he only had knives and machetes? You're a fool if you do.
Yes this guy had smoke and tear gas canisters, bombs if you will, as did the Columbine shooters but no one died from the explosions. They died from bleeding out of gun shot wounds.
I am also appaled to disgust by all the closet Rambois who think they would have made a difference if only they had been there with their piece. Again I say BULLSH#T!!!. If you really think that then you are a total fool and should stick to video games in your basement. This was CHAOS pure and simple. Do you know what the trained professionals do in these situations? They duck and cover. The trained cops at Columbine hid behind fire trucks for hours while innocent victims bled to death. If a dozen legal carriers had opened up in that theater it would have been the killing fields and the carnage would have significantly worse. Yea, a darkened theater filled with tear gas, special effects, gun fire and multitudes of people in costume and you would have made a difference. How absurd, how arrogant, how Rambo...
The "Guns don't kill people" argument is as stale as it is stupid.
Would it not have been better that someone along the chain of purchase raised a red flag and kept these weapons out of the hands of a deranged murderer in the first place?
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jul 23, 2012 - 10:30am PT
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Philo, take a deep breath.
Now, do you really think a PhD candidate in neuro-science who apparently had the desire to plan and kill random people wouldn't have found another tool to do so if guns were not available? Really? You're smarter than that. Think about it.
As horrible as it was, we're lucky he picked the tools he did. I would have to guess if he had really wanted to kill everyone in that theater that he would have.
I know guns are perceived as "scary" but there are a dozen other worse ways he could have killed 90% of them.
The human will is the root cause of incidents like this. The tools are a footnote.
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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Jul 23, 2012 - 11:08am PT
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But then Jesus will come and save us all. Yay Jesus. In the mean time, better carry.
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