Joshua Tree Ethics

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Gary

climber

"My god - it's full of stars!"

May 16, 2012 - 10:41am PT

I hope the PS actually does something, anything really, to make it perfectly clear that this sh#t is not how it is done, not condoned, and its practitioners will be held accountable. I'm all for chopping every bolt out there and declaring the area a dead zone.

RtM

climber

DHS

May 16, 2012 - 12:34pm PT

Its my understanding that most of the routes are not enhanced. Chopping all of the routes would just make an already shameful situation more shameful.

Chopping bolts does make a statement tho

albeit in a cowardly way.

Jon Beck

Trad climber

Oceanside

May 16, 2012 - 12:43pm PT

IF the climbing community and Park Service comes to the conclusion that chopping is appropriate how would it be cowardly? Cowardly is sneaking bolts in without a permit. A decade or so ago I was opposed to the notion of permits for bolts. Thanks to the actions of a few cowardly persons (I will not use the word climber) I have changed my view of regulation, sadly JT has become like the city, rules have become necessary. Personal freedom must now take a backseat to protection of the environment.

apogee

climber

Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy

May 16, 2012 - 12:46pm PT

RtM: "So, hows the "dealing with it inhouse" coming along?"

Well?

pud

climber

Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia

May 16, 2012 - 12:55pm PT

I think anyone that knows socalbolter and the decades of his positive contributions to rockclimbing, know there is no way he is responsible for any this destructive behavior.
It seems to me the "in-house cleaning" is being done. It's just not being posted all over the internet.

Edit:
Chopping these routes won't change a thing. The message sent to the perps is simple.
Find another hobby, you're not wanted here.

jstan

climber

May 16, 2012 - 01:13pm PT

As I understand it the bolts were placed illegally. We have to understand the NPS is loath to undertake actions until they have been very thoroughly considered. Their approach has long benefitted us all. That said, they might not be adverse were climbers properly skilled as to bolts and rock restoration to undertake a work party following a plan agreed to beforehand. That means not undertaking restorations other than those planned.

I don't think we want to have individuals going in entirely on their own.

That is what got us here in the first place.

I spray painted some test rocks this morning, The rocks were facing pretty much south so the paint should well set in a few days.

A before and after shot of a rock that, while not desert varnish, was very tightly grained. I chose several different surfaces for this test. The date is wrong by one day.

We will see how all these rocks look after 3000 PSI water jet cleaning.

Before:

After:

Jon Beck

Trad climber

Oceanside

May 16, 2012 - 01:24pm PT

So far the only change has been illegal bolts, chopped steps and a general trashing of a very special place.

Elcapinyoazz

Social climber

Joshua Tree

May 16, 2012 - 01:24pm PT

IF the climbing community and Park Service comes to the conclusion that chopping is appropriate

Not going to happen. Because as much as the chipping, trash, etc sucks, there are two of the very best (non-chipped) routes in the entire park there that do not deserve to be chopped simply as collateral damage for some dipshits' other transgressions that happened to occur nearby.

Survivor and the King are as good as it gets in JT. And I really don't think some blowhard wankers who will never climb these routes, crying about some unrelated bad stuff and instigating to "chop the whole area and close it down" will ever constitute a conclusion from "the climbing community".

Remedy the damage, deal with the perpetrators. But don't cut off your nose to spite your face and screw those of us who actually will climb those nearby routes that are unrelated to the B.S.

RtM

climber

DHS

May 16, 2012 - 01:30pm PT

I was being too harsh, sorry. The idea of removing the whole wall shocked me a bit. I could see removing some of the unnecessary anchors and such, the enhanced routes, as they are ruined.

Russ Walling

Gym climber

Poofter's Froth, Wyoming

May 16, 2012 - 01:30pm PT

^^^^

ECap: I'd go climb them quick if I was you....

jstan

climber

May 16, 2012 - 01:33pm PT

This is the kind of citizen situation the NPS does not need. If we cannot accept the fact climbers have injured themselves and there will be a cost, we will force the NPS to take more extreme correction.

Right now it is a choice. But we have to agree and we have to act responsibly.

Russ Walling

Gym climber

Poofter's Froth, Wyoming

May 16, 2012 - 01:45pm PT

Should all of Todd's hundreds of illegal routes be chopped now too?

Yes, but for quality infractions, not illegality.

Russ Walling

Gym climber

Poofter's Froth, Wyoming

May 16, 2012 - 01:54pm PT

What is filling the email box right now is how this has happened at other areas, in Cali, along with rampant chipping, and the same names are popping up on the FA list. I'm just doing the math.

mucci

Trad climber

The pitch of Bagalaar above you

May 16, 2012 - 02:17pm PT

Same names, same shame.

Ironic?

I think not.

Funny how those names, who had nothing to do with it...had been there at the conception.

Poofters.

looking sketchy there...

Social climber

Latitute 33

May 16, 2012 - 02:48pm PT

It is extremely unfortunate that the egregious actions of a couple people have brought the actions of the rest of the climbing community under particular scrutiny. However, climbers are often judged (correctly or not) by the acts of the most thoughtless of our ranks.

For this reason (and others), I personally believe that climbers should take responsibility for rectifying this problem. To an extent this has occurred already (the incidental environmental damage has already been mitigated).

The remaining question to be resolved is the removal of routes and fixed anchors. Should (1) All the fixed anchors be removed, or (2) Only anchors on the routes with chipped holds, which are accessed by the "stairs," and which were apparently also established by the prime suspect(s)?

This is not as easy of a question to answer as you might expect, there are cogent arguments for both approaches. Intelligent discussion by locals (climbers who have a direct stake in the issue) should be undertaken.

I have confidence that this approach will appropriately address this particular problem.

__

More generally and to address a few issues raised up-thread:

Joshua Tree has a Climbing Management Plan (CMP), problematic though it may be. Unfortunately, neither climbers nor the NPS have abided by it.

There has been mention of the CMP's Wilderness Permit System for new fixed anchors (routes) and that "No permits have ever been issued for Queen Mountain."

No permits have ever been issued because there is no actual permit system in place. For a variety of reasons, the NPS never took the steps necessary to establish a permit system. This has lead to a general feeling that the prior NPS administrations breached their agreement with the climbers. [And, suffice it to say -- in the long version of this story -- that is a more than fair conclusion.]

In the absence of a real permit system it was accurately predicted that routes utilizing fixed anchors would be established in Wilderness areas regardless of the prohibition. And, in the resulting "nuanced" view of climbers, establishing new routes was justified by the NPS' breach of faith.

Of course, that there are still "rules," notwithstaning such apparent lawlessness, escapes some climbers as evidenced by the damage we are all discussing.

What is needed is a serious re-appraisal of new fixed anchors in Wilderness areas and a re-drafting of the CMP to reflect the original deal brokered between climbers, environmental groups and the NPS. This would allow for some "permitted" new route development (fixed anchors) in Wilderness. Several methods of accomplishing this have been studied and proposed.

And contrary to what has been suggestion by Tom Higgins, local climbers have been very much involved in the climbing management process. And, one should not take the stupidity of a couple climbers as reflecting the general situation on the ground.

The alternative is not more regulation, but more thoughtful regulation.

klk

Trad climber

cali

May 16, 2012 - 03:00pm PT

well, i'm no longer a local or else i'd have done something more active. props again to the cleanup party.

i would support erasing the enhanced routes, if that photograph upthread is in fact a good depiction of the situation. that could be done right away. then if folks really, really wanted to erase the others (the imperative for that strikes me as a lot less persuasive, based on what little i know about the crag), it could be done later.

without knowing the current Super, or having a better sense of the current upper management at the Park, i'm a bit reluctant to say anything about the cup or the possibility of renegotiating the plan.

who is the super now anyway?

edit for the answer:

http://www.nps.gov/jotr/parknews/supbutler.htm

sounds like he has some history with parks that have climber management issues

Mighty Hiker

climber

Vancouver, B.C.

May 16, 2012 - 03:03pm PT

the chopped steps are the major concern

And the chopped/sawn trees, and the hard to quantify but definite impacts on wildlife from camping in the area... Filling in the chopped 'steps' and chipped holds, and removing some or all of the bolts (placed with a powerdrill or not) won't fix any of them.