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FreeCoffee
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 9, 2012 - 12:35pm PT
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The chipping, bolting, aggressive cleaning tactics, and vegetation damage in Joshua Tree's wilderness has not gone unnoticed by the park service.
For anyone looking to put a new route up in JT, please think twice - you are permanently altering the rock and impacting the area around the crag. There are already over 8,000 established routes - get to know the style and ethics of JT before imposing your own.
If you have any questions about the rules and regulations regarding bolts, fixed anchors, and new route development in Joshua Tree National Park, please email me, come to Climbers Coffee, or check the website.
http://www.nps.gov/jotr/planyourvisit/climbing.htm
JT Climbing Ranger
Bernadette
bernadette_regan@nps.gov
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Thanks! Words to listen to.
Peace
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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With zero specifics cited, the OP reads a bit like a threat.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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I seems to me she was rather specific and it certainly seems a relatively
friendly heads-up. I wouldn't feel threatened unless I had a guilty conscience.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Doesn't seem threatening to me at all. Pretty polite actually.
With 8000 routes available, doesn't seem to be that much need to make your mark, unless it's some plumb that simply HAS to be done.
Then pay attention and do it in the most environmentally friendly way possible.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Thanks, Bernadette - friendly reminders about these sorts of things are always apropos, and if there are specific incidents/concerns/examples, please elaborate.
Just a thought, though. You're talking about behaviours and impacts - the end result of what may or may not be ethical decisions. Climbers (and others) often confuse ethics and behaviours/impacts. For climbers in many places, both ethics and behaviours are important. However, for non-climbers, the main concern is behaviours and impacts. A non-climber, or land manager, probably doesn't care much about whether you pinkpoint, onsight, or hangdog your way up a route, or wear the latest in climbing fashion ("ethics"). However, they care very much if you have an impact on the natural and human environments, and those individual or (usually) cumulative impacts become unacceptable.
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Gary
climber
"My god - it's full of stars!"
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what exactly are J tree "ethics"????
Try to leave the place in better condition than you found it.
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Chipping, heavy cleaning, vegetation destruction;....unacceptable. New route activity is legal in the front country, which is an area of already heavy use and sees most of the traffic. Back country new routes, while illigal at this time, have very little impact on the Park and the environment.......I am all for miminalizing our impact on the environment, and our resources, but I'm not a big fan of too much Gov. control of recreational uses that are fair and reasonable to our (not our government's) Nat. Parks and wild areas...
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neversummer
Trad climber
30 mins. from suicide USA
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^^^^^^there it is...
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Todd's done his best to spread out the crowds, by giving them more options.
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RtM
climber
DHS
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I have worked with the JTNP as well as California State Park for years now on climbing policy, and I am somewhat familiar with their methods of reasearching and monitoring.
I can say the the rangers will not allude to what they know, nor will the tell you what data they have collected.
I can say though that their method of collecting data is thorough and precise, remorseless, and for the most part - ubiquitous. They're not fooled by "previously unreported routes" or pre-dated FAs. They sit quietly in the background recording everything that goes on. They photograph, regularly, areas of high impact (and areas of predicted future impact); they regularly count all bolts (legal and illegal), old, new, and replaced.
Someday, they are going to bring all that data to bear!
This precisly why I encourage responsible climbers to get to know rangers and to let them know that there are climbers that are do care about such things. I also encourage climbers to speak up when they see other climbers infringing on the rules.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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If that's true, The Man knows who shat on top of Headstone, but they're keeping this to themselves.
That makes logical sense.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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can o' worms.
yea, RtM, the park service likes to be coy--maybe that's because they can't figure out what to do.
i can tell you one thing: lots of people don't climb at josh because there isn't any sport climbing to speak of. i work hard trying to get younger climbers into trad technique, but it's like swimming against the tide. there's too much sport climbing out there, and it just doesn't compete with trad. lots of young climbers are scared to death of a trad rack, and i think with good cause. there isn't enough instruction and mentoring going on to make a significant difference. and the list of sport routes at josh easier than 5.11 with bolts close enough to make the average urban sport climber comfortable leading it? c'mon, short, if not nonexistent.
lots of climbers come to josh and go away with the saddest look in their eyes. others wander around like the french foreign legion, with crashpads on their backs. climbers with much better bouldering ability than i have have told me they're not ready to touch trad--and may never be.
currently policy seems to be stuck in its past. i think a positive solution would be to give the weekend--and vacation--sportclimbers what they want: some well-bolted moderate routes in a few areas. the step after that would be to get them educated in trad so they can engage and enjoy this sport safely everywhere else. i battled inside the SCMA to take this tack for years, but the general feeling was that people should learn trad "on their own". most guide services similarly make the training hard-to-get and expensive. after all, climbing is about self-reliance and responsibility, etc. etc. but young climbers nowadays start in gyms and graduate to sport climbs outdoors and rarely go beyond that. climbing isn't what it used to be. i think it's time to acknowledge that and engage what it has become.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
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If that's true, The Man knows who shat on top of Headstone, but they're keeping this to themselves.
That makes logical sense.
^ hahah!
they regularly count all bolts
Speaking of shite - A few months ago, I was using one of the outhouses walls as a back rest while doing an ink drawing, and one of the cleaning crew came along. We chatted a moment. I mentioned there was very little TP in there and was glad he had come along! (FYI, yesterday I also noticed there was only enough TP in the one that is near Stem Gem for one more light poop, two female pees, or 1/2 heavy duty use..... but I did NOT count squares at any time!)
He told me, at that previous time, that there was a hiring freeze in the NP, and that one person on the cleaning crew had retired, so they were understaffed. Also that it seemed there was an increase in visitor use too boot.
I asked if the retired person would be replaced, to which he said "no - freeze is a freeze, regardless." He said they simply could not keep up.
So how is it possible that there is enough labor available to do a bolt count throughout the park when there isn't enough labor to keep the pit toilets clean and stocked with paper? That doesn't seem right to me. I am sure it is "politics" and LE may have a bigger budget than the Toilet Patrol, but it still doesn't seem right.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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fats--go away again.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Push for better lobbying and legislation, but for Gods sake, until that happens FOLLOW THE RULES. The best way to keep the bullshit policies in place is to show the park service that those policies are necessary and we cannot self-govern.
We can, better than any user group in the park. Lets show that.
Greg (newb)
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TrundleBum
Trad climber
Las Vegas
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Joshua Tree:
Isn't that the outdoor climbing gym in L.A ?
YAWN !
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Tony, there's lots of sport climbs in Josh, and lots of stuff to TR too.
What there are not, and it is just the nature of the place, are roadside walls with a high concentration of sport routes all lined up Owens Gorge style.
You have to walk around.
How many folks would agree with me that the heavy handed use of pads is a much higher impact activity than bolts?
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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How many folks would agree with me that the heavy handed use of pads is a much higher impact activity than bolts?
Absolutely! The effect on vegetation can be far-reaching and, in the JT environment, very long-lasting. If bolts are camouflaged, as requested, I find their impact rather minimal.
As for the alleged vagueness, I found the OP, links and knowledge of JT plenty specific enough. I know of very few, if any, other wilderness users that have as much freedom to alter surroundings as we do. Let's not blow it.
John
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