Almost inevitable ... over Vernal Falls ... again.

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dirtbag

climber
Jul 28, 2011 - 01:35pm PT
Or, safer still, just close the Park and be done with it.
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Jul 28, 2011 - 02:05pm PT
The family will continue to do and say unrpoductive things until the bodies are found, if they are ever found. They want to blame someone else. It is part of human nature. One of the toughest jobs is handling the contacts with the family during this type of event. You want to be kind, but honestly telling them that you may never get a recognizable body from an accident here - that is hard to say to a mother.

How can you get them to realize that their energies are misdirected? How can you make them see that the world can't be without any risk, and that to make every piece of wilderness that safe destroys it?

Is the day coming when you need to sign a waiver and watch a warning video before being allowed to go on the trails?

Folks, it isn't Disneyland.
Caveman

climber
Cumberland Plateau
Jul 28, 2011 - 03:59pm PT
"They want people to realize that their children weren't wild risk-takers who climbed a fence to get somewhere they clearly weren't supposed to be.

Read more: http://www.modbee.com/2011/07/26/1791716/families-makerepeated-journeysto.html#ixzz1TQlHcciD"



Good luck with that as it is fairly obvious that is what took place.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Jul 28, 2011 - 04:19pm PT
I disagree cleo.

People DO sue the parks.
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Jul 28, 2011 - 04:30pm PT
Thinking they could get their cell phone signal is an instant classic, for sure. These are truly naive people.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Jul 28, 2011 - 04:32pm PT
Judge Awards $700,000 in Hiker's Death Courts: Federal government is ordered to pay a total of $1 million to three others injured when lightning struck a hut on Mt. Whitney. Despite previous incidents, no warning sign had been erected.
[Home Edition]



Los Angeles Times (pre-1997 Fulltext) - Los Angeles, Calif.
Author: GREG HERNANDEZ
Date: Jul 14, 1994
Start Page: 3
Section: PART-A; Metro Desk
Text Word Count: 482



Abstract (Document Summary)



Matthew E. Nordbrock, 26, was one of 13 hikers who had sought shelter from the downpour by ducking inside an old stone hut at the summit of the mountain. But the hut's corrugated metal roof acted as a lightning rod, and Nordbrock was electrocuted.

Less than a minute later, lightning struck the hut, and a surging electrical charge threw Nordbrock several feet. He was removed from the mountain by helicopter and died a short time later.

The judge also awarded $400,000 to James MacLeod, $300,000 to Glen MacLeod and $300,000 to Calif Tervo. All three suffered serious injuries in the hut.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Jul 28, 2011 - 04:37pm PT
From Deseret News archives:

KOLOB TRAGEDY, SUIT MAY LEAD TO RESTRICTIONS ON RECREATION
Published: Friday, June 28, 1996 12:00 a.m. MDT
By Joe Costanzo, Staff Writer
 comments PRINT | FONT + -
In the wake of its $750,000 settlement in the Kolob Creek lawsuit, the Washington County Water Conservancy District hinted Wednesday it might restrict recreational access to its properties.

"The Kolob tragedy should cause the district and other public agencies to evaluate whether facilities should be made available for recreational use," said district manager Ronald W. Thompson.Saying the district intends to do just that, Thompson added, "If public facilities are to be made available to the public, individuals who use these lands and facilities must take responsibility for themselves and their own safety."

From the archive
KOLOB TRAGEDY MAY LEAD TO VISITOR RESTRICTIONS – June 27, 1996
BOTH SIDES MADE ERRORS, LAWYERS SAY – June 20, 1996
TRIAL DATE SET FOR LAWSUIT OVER '93 KOLOB DROWNINGS – May 25, 1996
JUDGE PONDERS DISMISSAL OF KOLOB LAWSUIT – May 19, 1996
TRANSCRIPT IN KOLOB TRAGEDY TO BE REVIEWED – March 20, 1996
His comments came as the district abandoned its earlier silence and revealed the monetary terms of its settlement in a lawsuit involving the drowning deaths of two hikers in Zion National Park. Thompson said the $750,000 will be funded by the district's insurer, CNA Insurance Companies, rather than the district's general revenues.

The district arrived at the settlement with the victims' families and survivors of the 1993 tragedy two weeks ago - three days before the case was to go to trial - but until now declined media requests to discuss the terms.

Kim Ellis and David Fleischer drowned in July 1993 when they and the LDS Church youth group they were leading were caught unawares by a large release of water from the conservancy district's Kolob Reservoirs. The surviving adult and five teenage members of the group were stranded in a narrow slot canyon along Kolob Creek for four days.

The Ellis and Fleischer families and the survivors filed suit in 1994 alleging that the group should have been warned of the danger from the rising waters. They sought more than $24 million in damages.

In a statement released Wednesday, Thompson said the district maintained the temporary confidentiality simply to protect the interest of others involved in the lawsuit.

"At the time the district negotiated the proposed settlement, the plaintiffs' suit against the (U.S.) government had not yet concluded, and in fairness to all those involved, we wanted no information about the district's proposed settlement to hinder or impact the trial whatsoever," Thompson said.

A few days after the district settled with the families and survivors, the U.S. government fol-lowed suit with an $1.49 million payment offer. Thompson said the resolution of the case along with the district board's approval of the terms allowed officials to disclose the settlement amount.

"The district's settlement with the plaintiffs does not include any admission of liability on behalf of the district," Thompson added.

Though there were no admissions of culpability by any of the parties to the suit, government lawyers contended last week that the settlements recognized fault on both sides. Family attorney Robert S. Clark rejected that interpretation as "self-serving."

"In my view, the substantial settlement is a direct vindication of the hikers and a basic concession of fault by the Park Service," Clark said. "The only mistake made by the hikers was trusting the information given to them by the park."

Clark said the families are satisfied with the results of the lawsuit.
steveA

Trad climber
bedford,massachusetts
Jul 28, 2011 - 04:39pm PT
I remember when I was about 22, hiking above Yosemite Falls. I had followed the stream, which was raging, about 1/2 mile back and noticed this log which was spanning the gulf. I can't even swim, and it wouldn't of helped if I had fallen in, but I decided to cross the log anyway.

I was lucky that I got away with it. In hindsight, it was a stupid move on my part. It was simply a bad choice by these kids
and their luck ran out.
The park service would need to put a very long fence in that area, and many others, to protect people who make dumb decisions.

Where would it end?
thetennisguy

Mountain climber
Yuba City, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 28, 2011 - 04:42pm PT

Although signs warn hikers to stay on the trails and a metal rail lines the top of the 317-foot waterfall, Kiryakous doesn't think that's enough.


The families want that, and a little more. They want people to realize that their children weren't wild risk-takers who climbed a fence to get somewhere they clearly weren't supposed to be.

"Ask anybody," said Shamiran David. "My son is a gentleman. All of those kids were mature and well-behaved. They wouldn't do silly things to risk their lives."



Read more: http://www.modbee.com/2011/07/26/1791716/families-makerepeated-journeysto.html#ixzz1TQvcf7PM


My sympathy level is dropping the more I read ... this crap just smacks with pride and self-justification and makes me think that they pretty much had it coming .... the fact is they did risk their lives, and lost and now they are hoping to re-write the way the park service protects people by destroying the aesthetics of Vernal Falls even more by demanding a fence is erected?

In addition to all the blame they're starting to put on the rangers for not recovering the bodies already ...
rectorsquid

climber
Lake Tahoe
Jul 28, 2011 - 04:57pm PT
True personality comes out in times of stress and these people are clearly stressed and have weak personalities. The response from these family members is disgusting.

Dave
corniss chopper

climber
breaking the speed of gravity
Jul 28, 2011 - 05:01pm PT
The inevitable will happen again so it would be a kindness to make body recovery easier for our SAR heroes. ie engineer the pool at the base of
Vernal so there are no hiding places for the current to carry them into.

Who knows but with a nice deep pool someone might survive to wash up on a
surrounding permeable berm of gravel and rocks?
Gene

climber
Jul 28, 2011 - 05:14pm PT
I'd reserve judgment on the families and cut them some slack. People grieve in different ways. Any lawsuit they bring will go nowhere. If making noise helps them, that's OK by me. May even help prevent others from going over the falls. This will be forgotten within a few weeks.

g
squishy

Mountain climber
sacramento
Jul 28, 2011 - 05:19pm PT
hell no, if people like that are not met with swift reactions of realism then the audience will believe some of the sh#t they are saying, this is how fox news works, you have to assume someone out there is stupid enough to believe everything they read, comments containing some reason need to be written on those articles, hopefully enough for the media to report the other side of this story, if the media is going to give this family a voice then it should give the park, the other visitors and everyone else a voice as well, and everyone else thinks those people were foolish and, it's a teachable moment being turned into a new fence instead of anyone learning a thing...
Gene

climber
Jul 28, 2011 - 05:32pm PT
Squishy,

The park has had its say in most of the articles I've read. YNP has stated that no new rails or signs are needed. You make a good point about how the media plays a role in this. My point is that the families are going through a worst nightmare scenario and logic is a rare commodity for some in this sort of situation.

Gotta say that your post was one of the best run-on sentences I've ever read.

Cheers,
g
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Jul 28, 2011 - 06:02pm PT
EVERYONE knew what the risk was. They were showing off for the crowd and their friends. They delighted in the crowd's fear for their safety.

They climbed over the fence not because they thought it was safe, but because it wasn't.

More signs, a taller fence--these things would just have made it more enticing.

doughnutnational

Gym climber
its nice here in the spring
Jul 28, 2011 - 06:03pm PT
I am way more pissed off at the lawyers and judges in the cases cited above than I am at the grieving family.
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Jul 28, 2011 - 06:09pm PT
So...somebody fell in the river and went over the falls! What's the big deal? happens everyday don't it?

(Tongue firmly in cheek!)

Another bit of evidence on the evolving "Nanny State."
squishy

Mountain climber
sacramento
Jul 28, 2011 - 06:09pm PT
I am way more pissed off at the lawyers and judges in the cases cited above than I am at the grieving family.

I have to agree with you a little, I have some sympathy for what they are going through and they may just be ignorant..
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Jul 28, 2011 - 06:24pm PT
I am way more pissed off at the lawyers and judges in the cases cited above than I am at the grieving family.

Then you are ignorant of how the legal system works. The lawyers are the family's hired guns. The judge is required to be impartial.
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Jul 28, 2011 - 06:29pm PT
Granite climber is correct: no client==no lawyer.
Messages 241 - 260 of total 360 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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