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this just in
climber
north fork
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Great photos and humor Todd, keep it up.
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inyoupyos
climber
California
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Yes, the funniest part is someone appearing not to give two shitts, staying up all night bawking and mocking.
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Here's one more pic for you rap bolters.........(See how smart YOU are.....).....this can't be a good idea;....
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this just in
climber
north fork
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I don't listen to rap, I prefer hip hop. Nice shorts.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
SoCal
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Okay. If it was bolted on rappel, but the bolts are 20-30 ft apart is it a sport climb? NO? But it is totally bolted and there are no cracks. Oh yeah. And it's 5.2, not 5.1 although White Maiden's Walkaway is way harder.
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mooch
Trad climber
Old Climbers' Home (Adopted)
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Hardmen put sportclimbs up with hooks.
Hellz yeah!
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Guck
Trad climber
Santa Barbara, CA
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utahman912
Social climber
SLC, UT
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I'm going ___ climbing with a bunch of noobs today... It is obviously important what we call it... anxiously awaiting your reply.
Call it a waste of time... just kidding... I really enjoy climbing with new climbers now and again
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Pretty funny stuff.
Been climbing with some new climbers as of late. Interesting to see/hear their take on all of it.
They definately get that there's different aspects to the "sport", or, "hobby" (ha ha).
If we're clipping bolts on a route that are at a reasonable distance and our only gear is quick draws, its "sport climbing". If I haul the rack out of my pack and place gear, its "trad climbing". Doesn't matter what style happens on the climbing itself. Just call it poor style either way if I (or they) hangdog, grab gear to pull through, fall, whatever.
I cringed (still do a bit) when I hear the term "trad climbing". Yeah, it seems to come from the distinction brought about by sport climbing. I'm trying to get ok with it though...
Yeah, I've had to explain numerous times that we have more rules to climbing than golf...
Funny stuff.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Yeah, I've had to explain numerous times that we have more rules to climbing than golf...
I don't know. I'm sure there's some USGA committee right now trying to figure out whether a meteorite is a "temporary obstruction" or a "loose impediment." (with apologies to the lack of attribution to the author of a book whose title and author I can't remember).
Actually, there are much more similarities between golf and climbing than most climbers realize, because both activities ultimately involve competing against yourself. In both it's possible to play/climb alone and "cheat," but what have you accomplished?
The real difference is how people cheat in the two activities. The trad/sport controversy (to the extent it exists) seems to be about inflating accomplishments. Golfers primarily worry only about sandbaggers. We used to joke at my club that if golf pencils had erasers, no one would be eligible for the club championship.
John
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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I don't remember my course looking quite like that!
DMT, what I had in mind was, for example, hanging on to pro for upward progress on a "free" climb, which I've done out of desperation more than a few times. I consider that "cheating" if I intended to do the route free. That's all. It's my own standard for my own climbing. I never intended to apply that to anyone else, although I'm sure almost all of us recognize a distinction between "free" and "French free."
The similarity to me was the rules we apply to ourselves, even when no one is looking. I'm pretty sure most of us have those "rules" but, unlike golf, they're neither written nor universally accepted.
John
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inyoupyos
climber
California
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY1SealpQ4w
A clip from Bachar's last interview with him saying, "...Climbing, I think, is about style as much as it is getting to the summit, so anybody, a telephone repairman, can get to the summit of El Cap, but how you do it is the whole game. How do you do it? What kind of style can you pull it off in?"
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climbingcook
Trad climber
sf
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DMT, what I had in mind was, for example, hanging on to pro for upward progress on a "free" climb, which I've done out of desperation more than a few times. I consider that "cheating" if I intended to do the route free. That's all. It's my own standard for my own climbing. I never intended to apply that to anyone else, although I'm sure almost all of us recognize a distinction between "free" and "French free."
It seems strange to me that we almost all agree that pulling on gear is 'cheating' when you're free climbing but that if you aid climb a sport route while bolting it, you are doing it in better style than if you rap bolt it. Doesn't it seem strange to let good aid placements dictate bolt placements rather than the flow of the climb or the need for protection in that particular place?
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inyoupyos
climber
California
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katiebird, what's your answer?
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Too funny, DMT!
I started climbing in the 1960's, but never swung a club until the 1980's, when I got married. My wife had played since she was a kid, and my inlaws got me golf lessons in the hope it would cause me to climb less. All it did was add one more distraction.
I quit almost cold turkey in 1999. My wife hurt her back then, and hasn't played much since. I had golfed infrequently after that. When I finally went out to the Club, the first thing our pro said was "Ah, Mr. Eleazarian. Here for your thousand dollar round of golf?" . . . and he wasn't far off.
The few times I've played since were just like you describe -- no short game, to the point where if I'm near the green, there is zero likelihood that my next shot will be closer to the pin than my last shot!
Cheers (or should I say, Fore!)
John
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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DMT: Climbing has very few codified rules and those that exist are either resisted or grudgingly accepted. Without rules there can be no cheating, period.
Ethical rules, yes, are often resisted. Rules of style though? What constitutes Free Climbing is well accepted (although a hanging belay could be a gray area.)
The composer Igor Stravinsky knew something about the relationship between rules and creative freedom. Many of his works were created within a strict framework of self imposed rules. For example sometimes he would allow only a certain “row” of notes, less than the complete scale, out of which he would create the entire work.
“Music is given to us with the sole purpose of establishing an order in things, including, and particularly, the coordination between man and time... The more constraints one imposes, the more one frees one's self. And the arbitrariness of the constraint serves only to obtain precision of execution.” Stravinsky.
I think the rule which defines the style we call Free Climbing brings to a climber a similar structure which gives us a goal to strive for and the freedom to pursue it. You can call it a rule, a constraint or a goal:
Don't weight the rope.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Must keep climbing thread alive!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Getting buried with work - will rejoin the fray this evening...
Ah, midwest / southern sandstone....sigh.
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Nate D
climber
San Francisco
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I don't golf, but I applaud Mr. Tripod for at least asking the "locals" about adding a bolt to Lurch. (Although arguably this is likely not the best thread or forum for the inquiry). Regardless, I know nothing of the area or climb, but with a name like Lurch, it seems only natural the route should remain a little spicy. FWIW. :)
And to Kris,
Thanks for sharing that wise quote about the most important choice in climbing! Amidst all the chatter and debate here, that bit is sticking with me.
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Guck
Trad climber
Santa Barbara, CA
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