Mosque to be built at ground zero

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Mighty Hiker

climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Aug 17, 2010 - 08:10pm PT

I very much liked the op/ed piece from the New York Times that Gene and Roger posted. It accorded with my thinking - the people behind the Cordoba Centre have as much to fear from fanatic Muslims as they do from fanatic Americans, of whatever or no belief. Islam, whatever the claims of some of its followers, is no more monolithic than Christianity or other religions. It doesn't even have a pope or high priest, who claims to boss everyone around, and hasn't had a true caliph (political/spiritual leader) since the Abbasid collapse in 1262, if then. And the Sufis are a very well-known branch of Islam, going back centuries.

Jeremy Handren

climber

Aug 17, 2010 - 08:16pm PT

"Radical commie libs, not so much."

What about the fascists, Pinkos and tree huggers..... c'mon Bluering are you getting soft on thems lefties.
Any true conservative knows that its essential to cram as many idiotic republagumby epithets as possible into any given sentence.

Gary

climber

Desolation Basin, Calif.

Aug 17, 2010 - 08:25pm PT

Ron:

I dont kniow if youve noticed, but America has been going down hill for quite some time.

Yeah, it started about 1980.

bluering

Trad climber

Santa Clara, CA

Aug 17, 2010 - 08:29pm PT

I work with 2 currently, as#@&%e. Another is a regular climbing buddy.

In fact he posts here too. Mason. I hesitated to post that prior to this because I felt he may be against it, but he should be all for it. He's a good guy.

I pull this down if he insists, but he should be proud. Just climbed with him last weekend and climbing with he and his Badass!!!!!!! GF next weekend.

Whatever...

DMT, I usually love ya, but you can be a f*#king dick sometimes...the kind you accuse me of being.

Gene

Social climber

Aug 17, 2010 - 08:33pm PT

I work with 2 currently, as#@&%e. Another is a regular climbing buddy.

So why don't you give him/them and the rest of their "kind" the respect to worship, if they so choose, at any place they want to?

g

bluering

Trad climber

Santa Clara, CA

Aug 17, 2010 - 08:38pm PT

So why don't you give him/them and the rest of their "kind" the respect to worship, if they so choose, at any place they want to?

See cragman's above post...I agree.

corniss chopper

Mountain climber

san jose, ca

Aug 17, 2010 - 08:42pm PT

Freedom of religion , freedom of speech - Sure is nice.
But they can't be allowed to build a Islamic mosque at ground zero
just like you can't yell fire in a crowded theater or have Neo-nazi's
march through a Jewish event. Someone will get hurt or killed.

Rights come with responsibilities.

Zoning codes have stopped the building of many churches in certain locations in America while letting them be erected elsewhere.

New York City has stopped Walmart from having a store inside the city by
zoning shenanigans. This mosque can be moved elsewhere by the same method.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/195098/new_york_city_says_no_to_walmart_store.html

Gene

Social climber

Aug 17, 2010 - 08:43pm PT

Cragman,

Like on the other side of the tracks? Should we limit the rights of a billion for the actions of a few? No!!!! A central tenent of Christianity (and humanity) is reconcilliation. My goodness! Love our brothers... Do unto others.... How can we bring them to Jesus is we preclude engaging them and prohibit their presence in our neighborhoods?

Gene

Mighty Hiker

climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Aug 17, 2010 - 08:43pm PT

Mecca is the holy city of Islam. I don't think that any Christian church has ever been permitted there, and doubt that there have been any synagogues there for centuries, although there probably were at the time of the prophet.

New York City isn't a holy city, at least not to any major religion. It is one of the capital cities of the world.

There are synagogues, mosques, and various brands of Christian churches in Jerusalem, at or near the Dome of the Rock. All in uncomfortable co-existence, which is probably just as well.

There must be mosques and synagogues in Rome, but I don't know if any are near to the Vatican.

We're arguing about symbolism, which is a challenging thing to do even with sound information.

Gene

Social climber

Aug 17, 2010 - 08:48pm PT

Buidl the mosque on the other side of town.

That's chicken poop! If a mosque is good enough for X miles outta town, it's good enough for where it's proposed.

Gene

EDIT:

DON'T POUR SALT IN THE WOUND!!!!!

The wound was caused by people not even remotely connected with Cordova.

Gene

Social climber

Aug 17, 2010 - 08:53pm PT

build it farther away from that spot! Easy.

Which diminishes the Constitutional protections of us all.

You can worship how/who you want, but public opinion will tell you where. Sorry. I can’t buy that.

Gene

AKDOG

Mountain climber

Anchorage, AK

Aug 17, 2010 - 08:55pm PT

We will continue to go downhill under the current administration in the area of tolerance.

When do we start drawing the line to protect the lives of our citizens?

The line has been drawn, you can’t make a list of people you want to kill or you go to jail. You don't need a mosque or church to be a kook.

“Prosecutors alleged that Paul Rockwood, also known as "Bilal," converted to Islam about a decade ago and began studying the teachings of American-born cleric Anwar al-Awlaki, who has professed hatred for the United States and supports acts of terrorism. The couple then moved to King Salmon, where he worked for the National Weather Service.”

http://www.adn.com/2010/08/16/1412303/feds-alaska-couple-had-20-names.html

Gary

climber

Desolation Basin, Calif.

Aug 17, 2010 - 09:00pm PT

If someone claiming to be a Christian went into Mecca and blew up a building, killing thousands of Muslims, then a Christian church showed up 10 years later wanting to build a church, what do you think the reaction would be?

Imagine if a bunch of Saudis flew hijacked airplanes into buildings in New York, and in return we invaded Iraq. What do you think the reaction would be?

Gene

Social climber

Aug 17, 2010 - 09:04pm PT

its just THAT spot Gene, no others are an issue.

That, to my feeble mind, indicates that your arguement is based on emotion and not on respect of law, respect of human rights, respect of the Constitution, respect of religion, respect of assembly, etc.

Kind of like when Ford Frick thought we needed an asterisk after Roger Maris hit 61.

Gene

Social climber

Aug 17, 2010 - 09:21pm PT

City Planners would not allow a whorehouse to be built in the middle of a business district because it causes problems.

City Planners should not allow this mosque to be built in this spot because it will cause problems too.

This analogy is despicable and the epitome of misguided self-righteousness. SHAME!!!!

Gene

Ken M

Mountain climber

Los Angeles, Ca

Aug 17, 2010 - 09:28pm PT

It is about what is right and wrong in regards to people's feelings.

No, that is about building Disneylands, made to create illusions that make people feel good.

How about instead of Make Believe, we Americans focus on Truth, Honesty, and practical ways of doing things.

Then we wouldn't be so sorry, when our allies and trainees like the Shah and Osama end up creating grief for us.

In this thread, there was a "lynch him" mentality for this guy, who is standing up for what we believe in. He was getting treated like our Montagnard allies in Vietnam, who we got to fight and die for us, then screwed when things got tough.

snowhazed

Trad climber

Oaksterdam, CA

Aug 17, 2010 - 09:29pm PT

There's already an open islamic prayer center that is closer to ground zero than the mosque will be. meh-ricans sucking on some media teat.

bluering

Trad climber

Santa Clara, CA

Aug 17, 2010 - 09:36pm PT

You're a fool with that logic. The "practical" way of fighting the Afghani conflict would have been to bomb Western Pakistan and Eastern Afghanistan into the f*#king stone age!!!! With extreme prejudice.

We tried your way instead with pussyfooted ROE and attention to press reports instead of telling the Pres to STFU and PiSS OFF!!! We don't care!!! These bastards harboured the people who masterminded the attacks. We warned then, asked them to forfeit the perps, and they refused.

Guess what??? We still went light...Do you really want decisive action? I did. This sh#t would have ended a while ago...