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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 8, 2010 - 04:08pm PT
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hehehe you're sooooo easy to get upset....You just don't get it and never will.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Aug 18, 2010 - 11:24am PT
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this also posted in the "northfork lone pine creek rangers" thread
rick, at the beginning of the fossil falls thread you reported every half-baked bit of information you came up with to show people on ST you were johnny-on-the-spot making telephone calls. it was ridiculous the way your version of things changed by the hour.
you at least owe us a report for follow-up. that you have not done so tells me you're probably embarrassed by your lack of results. that is what comes of acting solo and trying to rely on coffee shop acquaintances. if you're serious about becoming an activist in climbers' interests--and god knows we need them because the access fund seems worthless except in high profile easy wins--learn to involve others.
i probably would've gotten my demanding ass to one of your meetings, and i could well have brought some real friends of fossil falls with me, but my psychic powers have not developed to the point where i can show up without being given a time and place.
what's missing? we talked about some of it on the thread. i'm sure you never pursued any of the following:
--checking california laws which recognize established access and history of public use
--fair criticism of the BLM for developing fossil falls with signage, interpretive kiosk, restroom and campsites you now have to pay for, without bothering to define property lines
--a complaint to the inyo county sheriff about the little lake ranch security patroller's rudeness, physical intimidation with an off road vehicle, and his threat to "get a gun" in face of complete cooperation on the part of the two climbers
--the appropriateness of the activities of the little lake ranch itself, which should be named the little lake duck hunting club, adjacent to busy state highway 395
--contacting the SCMA, which, together with its predecessor, the sierra club RCS, has used fossil falls annually for its rock safety class graduation, probably before that hunt club even showed up. the SCMA, of which i was a founding member, is generally willing to help in issues which concern it with both contributions and people to get involved. they used to have a pretty good real estate lawyer among the membership.
--involving others outside the climbing realm, a key element in this kind of diplomacy. the reason stony point is now a los angeles city park is that climbers acted along with boys scouts, community history groups and horseback riders, getting the whole city council to override the mayor's veto at the time. fossil falls is an important geohistory site. there's lots of people who should be involved, especially if the nextdoor neighbor is being persnickety and threatening to get a gun. east side is about getting along with neighbors, rick, not shooting at them, and real eastsiders recognize the importance of their economic lifeblood streaming up and down that highway. the wyoming redneck crap-on-outsiders attitude doesn't wash here.
rick, you do lots for the climbing community, but anyone trying to do something like this all by himself is sure to get in it over his head. the damage may already have been done. decisions appear to have been made without full advocacy of the things i mention. such things need to be pushed early in the game.
i'm also posting this on that FF thread where you should have been telling us what you've been up to all along.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Aug 19, 2010 - 11:12am PT
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another post here from that other thread.
now is the time to come forward if you want to get involved in this. the ball is now in rick's court--where it has laid motionless for some time.
_
bottom line, rick likes to do it all solo. he never involves anyone else, and his, ah, impeccable manners seem to turn a lot of fellow climbers away. yea, you love him or you hate him.
read through this thread and you'll see what i'm talking about--not rick's manners, which aren't so bad here, but the issues involved and his way of imposing himself and trying to take it all under his wing and then turn his back on the people he should be involving. then he gets verrrrry verrrry quiet when he can't boast about resounding success.
i can almost admire rick for his initiative, but he's not going about it right. fossil falls seems like a minor issue, but i think it's a little gem and worth some effort. the hunt club people are being asses and we should be playing hardball with them. rick doesn't understand that kind of hardball. his military background brings nothing but butt-kissing to the table. if you want to see how hardball is played, sit through a nasty case in district court sometime. if you don't have time for that, rent a DVD of trial and error, which will also include a few eastside laughs.
i'd still like to see something happen for fossil falls. i will offer to get as many longtime friends of the place together as i can from southern california for a meeting with authorities and the landowner. rick is local there, so i'll ask him to organize it on his end, and with some consultation, especially with me.
this is a dare. wipe up the spew and roll up your sleeves.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Aug 19, 2010 - 11:50am PT
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nice try, rick. not once during the situ, whatever that is, did you ever make a formal offer to involve anyone other than mister ace number one.
you can still do something about this. afraid to take the dare?
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Todd Townsend
Social climber
Bishop, CA
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Bump? Update?
Just went and checked this place out for the first time on wednesday since the weather was crappy and I had the day off. Didn't find this thread until tonight, so I had no idea of access/property line issues.
I descended into the lower falls area from the northeast, hiked down to scott's bluff, and ascended back out via the northwest slope. At no point did I see anything resembling a "no trespassing" sign, fence, or other property marker. Additionally, there is still no indication at the BLM parking area that there is any issue with close proximity to private land.
Just wondering if there was any progress with respect to lower falls/scott's bluff access? It looks like a fun place to climb, but I don't want to cause any further problems.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
SoCal
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People have been climbing there for decades. No trouble. I go about once a year. It's a good "once a year" climbing area.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Mar 11, 2011 - 11:00am PT
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this is administered by the ridgecrest office of the BLM. if you like listening to revolving phone messages, telephone them sometime. i sent them this email today.
Ridgecrest Contact Form
BLM California Offices
Thank you for your feedback.
Your feedback is important to us. We will respond to your comments/questions as soon as possible.
*Your contact was :
Name: tony bird
Organization: rock climber
Subject: ridgecrest feedback
Type of Contact: General Question
Comment: i'm wondering about the situation at fossil falls. have tried to call your office a couple of times--impossible to get past your revolving answering message.
i've done rock climbing at fossil falls many times. recently there seems to have been some trouble with the adjacent landowner, the little lake ranch, which i understand is a duck hunting club. climbers were chased off the lower falls area last year very threateningly. still, it appears there is no defined border there.
the other thing that surprises me is that duck hunting would be allowed at such close proximity to hwy. 395.
i would appreciate some discussion, since this is a popular public use area, not only for climbers but for others interested in exploring the falls.
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bubble boy
Big Wall climber
topanga, CA
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Mar 11, 2011 - 05:44pm PT
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Bump?
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Mar 14, 2011 - 04:17pm PT
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well, here's the reply i got from the BLM. since i'm the authorized addressee (see disclaimer), i do hereby disseminate it. but you can't do that. :-D
Hello Tony,
Thanks for the email and inquiry. The fossil falls area is a popular
location for recreation on the public land. As you have noted the adjacent
private property is owned by duck hunting club. Both the BLM and the
private property owners are working to conserve the area and be good
neighbors.
The BLM allows rock climbing on the public land. However, the private
property owners have problems with trespassers on their property. This is
an ongoing problem. You mentioned that there was a problem with a climber
on the lower falls portion of fossil falls, the lower part of the fossil
falls is private property. Another problem is that the boundary is not
marked. This is due to the fact that the area is very rugged and almost
impossible to survey and mark the property line for both the BLM and the
private property owner. The other problem is that it would be very
difficult to build a boundary fence across the volcanic rock and fossil
falls formation. There are a few survey markers, however, that can be used
to determine legal land survey lines. We recommend anyone who wants to
rock climb ensure that this activity is restricted only to the public land
portion. With the use of GPS and detailed topo maps, it should be possible
to determine where the public land boundary is located.
Regarding your concern over hunting near Highway 395, the BLM does not
regulate hunting, especially on private property. The State of California
issues regulations for hunting.
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message including any attachments is intended
exclusively for the individual(s) or entity to which it is addressed. This
communication may contain information which is proprietary, privileged,
confidential, or otherwise legally exempt from disclosure. If you are not
the named addressee, you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy or
disseminate this message or any part of it without the express
authorization from the author.
Hector A. Villalobos
Field Manager, BLM Ridgecrest Field Office
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Mar 14, 2011 - 04:58pm PT
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Well this certainly put some things into perspective. My advice since it's a tad unclear where precisely the property lines are, would be to give a wide berth rather than pushing the envelope.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Mar 14, 2011 - 06:32pm PT
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This is due to the fact that the area is very rugged and almost
impossible to survey and mark the property line for both the BLM and the
private property owner. The other problem is that it would be very
difficult to build a boundary fence across the volcanic rock and fossil
falls formation.
So the duck club does not even have a surveyed property line and they are chasing people of what they allege is "their" land?
Also if it's easy to find the property line using GPS, someone could post pictures showing where the property line is.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Mar 14, 2011 - 06:50pm PT
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You could always carry a shotgun, to either blend in or level the playing field. Anyone that hunts ducks as a sport is pretty much a wussy anyway, not real hard to shoot a duck, whats the point? They taste like sh#t.
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Wack
climber
Dazevue
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Mar 14, 2011 - 07:01pm PT
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The BLM e-mail did not address that they were completely negligent in mentioning the private property in their nearby kiosk and parking lot.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
SoCal
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Mar 15, 2011 - 01:45am PT
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Thank for cutting through the bull Chief. Great to see you posting more!
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Bad Climber
climber
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Bump and query:
Was looking into confirmations that Scott's Bluff is off limits, and that clearly is the case. I never suspected that the lower falls area was off limits too. I climbed there once last year and was hoping to do so again this year.
Is that officially off limits? Certainly, as the long thread mentions several times, we saw no signage, fencing, anything to indicate the lower falls was taboo.
If it's a bust and a problem, we'll sadly stay away. I've had some great times down in there, especially on cold winter days when nothing else is climbable.
BAd
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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I will keep climbing right where I have always climbed.....
Scotts bluff was never worth the footsteps it took to get there...
I will need to see these new signs, as I walk the same way I have for 40 years...to go climb the three climbs.
And so who cares if the older land owner is approachable... why even talk, cause they just say no.
and Chief.... I don't give a flying f about any of these LAND MANAGERS you speak of.... they can chase us around till their budgets run dry.
LOL...
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