Obama wins Nobel Peace Prize

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Mighty Hiker

climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Dec 14, 2009 - 11:36am PT

LEB: "I favor the big stick approach"

We noticed that you were still working on the "speak softly" part.

survival

Big Wall climber

A Token of My Extreme

Dec 14, 2009 - 12:17pm PT

"I cannot take anyone seriously who uses this kind of inflammatory rhetoric."

Apparently, you don't read some of your own material very closely.
You post plenty of inflammatory material. Like Obama, deep down inside, doesn't care much for the military, soldiers, generals, etc.
You don't think that is inflammatory?

"In case you have not noticed by now (apparently you have not), I am not a "conservative" by any reasonable stretch of the imagination. I am pro-choice, pro-socialized medicine, pro-environment, and anti-exploitative permutations of capitalism. Moreover, I do not support Christianity (although I do value spirituality)."

*Pro-choice is clearly a liberal ideal.
*Socialized medicine, if it were to ever occur, would probably come from liberals.
*Pro-environment is much more a liberal ideal than conservative.
*Separation of church and state is much more on the liberal platform.

And yet you call yourself Anti-liberal, but not conservative....
Jeebus, LEB, no wonder you confuse and infuriate folks around here.
You want to seem so crystal clear in your muddy non-clarity.

Where do you stand on gay rights?
Where do you stand on the war on drugs?
Where do you stand on Dr. assisted suicide when the patient is begging for it?
What are these GOP sacred "traditional" values you speak of?
List 'em.

You should start your own political party, The T.I.C.
Talk in circles party. You'd make a great politician.
How to talk the most and say the least.

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Dec 14, 2009 - 12:25pm PT

Lois listens to her husband and fears liberals want more tax money

She fears terrorists and wants them killed

That's why she's conservative

Peace

Karl

Norton

Social climber

the Middle Class

Dec 14, 2009 - 12:31pm PT

Since when do liberals not kill terrorists?
US "liberal" soldiers are fighting and killing in the trenches right now.
Obama is killing them in Iraq, Afganistan,and Pakistan right now.
Liberals are pro war when it is needed, and anti war when it is STUPID.

Included in Obama's 2009 Economic Stimulus Bill was a tax cut/credit
for everyone making less than $125,000 a year.

What is this only conservatives kill terrorists and cut taxes?

Beautiful theories are often ravaged by gangs of brutal facts.

survival

Big Wall climber

A Token of My Extreme

Dec 14, 2009 - 12:32pm PT

I wouldn't mind seeing a few New York boys corner Bin Laden myself.

Does that make me conservative? Hell no.

I served honorably in a tough outfit, proud of it.
Pro military, yes.

LEB seems to think that liberals are anti-military.
There is however, a big difference between being anti-military and anti-war.

LEB loves the military, but didn't serve a day. Sounds about right.
I have 20+ veterans in my family just including siblings who served going back to VietNam, parents,aunts and uncles who served in WWII and my grandfather who served in WWI.
This doesn't include my cousins at all.
How many vets in your pro military family LEB?

Norton

Social climber

the Middle Class

Dec 14, 2009 - 12:38pm PT

More liberals are opposed to gay marriage than support it, just like conservatives.

They are just "more likely" to have no problem with same sex marriage.

Republicans are fiscally irresponsible.
The largest increase in the growth of Federal Government, and the fastest
increase in the US deficit happened when Republicans controlled all three
branches of the government from 2000-2006

Damn facts keep getting in the way of what people want so badly to believe.

GDavis

Social climber

SOL CAL

Dec 14, 2009 - 12:55pm PT

Survival laid down THA HAMMAR!

Ken M

Mountain climber

Los Angeles, Ca

Dec 14, 2009 - 02:47pm PT

"I am, however, very pro-military (I favor the big stick approach)"

There is so much wrong with this statement, I don't know where to begin.

First, as you define pro-military, it appears to be as an institution, an instrument of foreign policy. Or as some people would say, bullying.
"Might makes right". A VERY expensive policy.

Note that this policy is quite anti-military personnel. I refer the reader to the writings of many modern Generals, such as the Republicans Powell, Zinni, and many others, who make the case that typical civilian leaders with no military experience, but a war orientation (like Cheney), do not understand the human cost of war on the military, and consider them cheaply expendible---excused as "they knew what they were signing up for!"
Uhhhhh....no, they didn't.

If LEB were a diligent militant, and a diligent healer, she would be shocked, shocked, at the toll that war takes on the soldiers involved. But it is easy for the pro-militant types to think that these are video games, and without human cost.

To get a sense of the cost, here is the video of a fascinating talk I attended:

"Tens of thousands of American soldiers have suffered injuries in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, including debilitating head and spine damage, chronic pain, and mental health problems. They return home to a devastatingly overburdened veterans' healthcare system, plagued by months-long waits for doctors and several times more disability claims than estimated. As the war on terror continues, and as emergency medical care at the front thankfully saves many lives, the country's young veterans will need better care for years to come. Zócalo hosts a panel of medical and military experts -- including Jennifer Sinclair, sister of an Army captain who served in Iraq, Army Major Gen. (Retired) Paul E. Mock, and David Webb, chief of environmental and military medicine at the Veterans Affairs Medical Center Long Beach -- to discuss how to heal the minds and bodies of returning soldiers."

http://zocalopublicsquare.org/full_video_2009.php?event_id=243&video=

Norton

Social climber

the Middle Class

Dec 14, 2009 - 02:56pm PT

The true cost of the worst foreign policy decision in US history, Iraq, is
estimated to cost the US taxpayers two trillion dollars, the worst deficit
buster since World War Two, a war of necessity, not one of "choice".

Jaybro

Social climber

Wolf City, Wyoming

Dec 14, 2009 - 06:53pm PT

Lois
You need to be a better sport, like Fattrad,

As much as he can rant he gets this better than you do. And attempts to be rational. You don't.

When you make crap up out of whole cloth, you lose your credibility. That is why you have no credibility, none on this site, that you scientifically outed as conservative.

Nobody listens to you here. Well, Not quite no-one, because I listen to you, (but never on one of your sour grapes political rants) and that's about it.

Don't worry, he will screw up on something. Wait until then and save the reactionary premature, ejaculation.

As for your presuming to be able to call me to hyperbolic task for using phrases such as "Mass murder" and "upset the ecconomies of every nation of the world", those are facts, undeniable. He doesn't even try to deny those assertions; why do do you think he stonewalls them repeatedly when asked?
It's not like I'm the first person to ever say those things in the international eye, now, is it?

Bide your time. If you get the timing right, next time, somebody, might, listen. That's one more than you have now. You're being angry and lazy.

You wouldn't do this at work.

Jaybro

Social climber

Wolf City, Wyoming

Dec 14, 2009 - 10:45pm PT

Unless of course he happens to be one.
I bet you don't have that problem with Pol pot, or Stalin. But since he was an american president Bush II, gets a pass?

Since they were mostly not out if malice, just mostly collateral damage from business deals, would you prefer the term, 'Mass Manslaughterer?

LED

Social climber

the great beyond

Dec 14, 2009 - 11:13pm PT

Jaybro

Social climber

Wolf City, Wyoming

Dec 14, 2009 - 11:36pm PT

Erica Jong?

Lois, you can call him a rose if it makes you feel better, but he still stinks.

I think the original point of this thread was that the NP was premature which everybody pretty much seems to agree with, though Stockholm says they did that to inspire him...

Pretty wyde drift to go so far as to use it as an avenue to whine that since your boy didn't win, that's ground to compare the sitting president with no track record, to a mass murder / Rose, who single handedly sent the entire planet in to depression to curry daddy's favor.
You don't have to like him but a tiny bit of objectivity is in order.

Jaybro

Social climber

Wolf City, Wyoming

Dec 15, 2009 - 11:26am PT

Well I tried, you just don't listen, you keep making the same argument as if no one is speaking but you. Go ahead, stick the other foot in. Glad you can't see yourself the way we do.

Ken M

Mountain climber

Los Angeles, Ca

Dec 15, 2009 - 12:00pm PT

Ken M,

I am really glad you told me that war is a terrible affair because otherwise I just assumed it was a walk in the park. Of course, I did not know that war is a horrible state of affairs to be avoided at all possible costs or that the only justifiable war is one of self-defense. Silly me. I thought it was just something you did when you had nothing better to do - kind of like playing bridge or basketball or some such thing. It is a really good thing I have someone like you around to keep me informed on such important matters. If you had not come into my life, I would have never known about the toll that war takes on everyone but most especially the price it exacts on those who directly fight the battles. Thanks so much for that novel information which I otherwise would never have known.

And yet, you LIKE to carry a big stick. You LIKE the military option. To me, that is NOT appreciating war for what it is, what you state above. I think you have an academic understanding, but not a real understanding of what it is to like the military option. Perhaps if you'd spent years visiting with military families, like Michelle Obama, you would. But you'd rather talk about how you like taking the actions that increase the misery of AMERICANS, our MILITARY people, instead of finding other options.