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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Jan 18, 2008 - 12:22am PT
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I was hoping for a BJ, Mimi.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Jan 18, 2008 - 12:24am PT
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There's plenty for all.
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GDavis
Trad climber
SoCal
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Jan 18, 2008 - 12:26am PT
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One of my climbing mentors speaks very, very, very highly of the ability and character of Mark and Richard. A few peeve'd guys on the internet aren't enough to dissuade me.
Tim Shinhoffen wants to get in touch with Richard and Mark, if you're lurking hit me an email!
-Greg
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Mimi
climber
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Jan 18, 2008 - 12:36am PT
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Sorry graniteclimber let you down, Pete.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jan 18, 2008 - 12:43am PT
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I'm sorry, where are my manners? have some, Ed. Looks like Granite's buying.
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 18, 2008 - 12:58am PT
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So way back before the chopping and defecating of the ropes.
I come out of the shower house and for the first time ever run into Richard and Mark just over at the far side of the SAR cache.
I didn't at first know who they were but because I had been hearing talk about some guys doing something on El Cap that was stirring up a sh'it storm among some of the locals.
I introduced myself and asked if they were the guys having the problems with the locals here and they affirmed.
I casually said: "Maybe if those guys are so riled up or some such maybe it's not such a good idea to go up there." Not that it was really any of my business to be telling them what to do. It was mostly a hint of what I would have done. I wouldn't want a bunch people pissed off at me like that.
But whatever, sometimes people just gotta do what they need to do.
They were actually seriously considering that avenue at that point in time. They were pretty upset that I could see.
Unbeknown to me they were there for some meeting with all concerned climbers and other interested individuals at the SAR cache a short time later.
I gave em a good luck to their future and vanished off on to my on space.
Whatever happened at that meeting? Was it as nasty as here?
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Jan 18, 2008 - 01:11am PT
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"I was hoping for a BJ, Mimi"
everyone who's surprised, raise your hand
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 18, 2008 - 01:28am PT
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The hope that springs eternal in Pete's case!
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Jan 18, 2008 - 02:53am PT
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Lovegasoline/Neal,
I edited my post just before yours to hopefully reply to your reasonable points.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=516588&msg=517961#msg517961
I have read most of the Wings of Steel threads, although the signal-to-noise ratio can be low at times.... I don't enjoy taking a negative tone, but I wanted to make some observations about styles of argument and why threads won't die. I don't expect the general direction of these threads to change.
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Trusty Rusty
Social climber
Tahoe area
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Jan 18, 2008 - 03:08am PT
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Speak up who has actually done it, the rest, shut up.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Jan 18, 2008 - 03:12am PT
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bump for Werner's question...
"I gave em a good luck to their future and vanished off on to my on space.
Whatever happened at that meeting? Was it as nasty as here?"
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Jan 18, 2008 - 12:22pm PT
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Oh my, "Trust Rusty Trombone" has spoken. He's yet another guy spouting off on the internet, but I guess we should all heed his directive to STFU.
Rusty Trombone, does the word "irony" mean anything to you?
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Jan 18, 2008 - 12:37pm PT
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Mimi wrote: And why are elcapfool's observations of doctored placements disregarded?
But didn't provide a link to those observations.
While elcapfool wrote:
WoS is no cake walk, it shut me down. It is not a rivet ladder. In fact it is a route so visionary, that it is still not even understood, much less repeted. It is unlike any other climb I have ever heard about.
Better rivets and bolts is the only legitimate critism I can see.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=235868&msg=236067#msg236067
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Jan 18, 2008 - 01:05pm PT
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A quote from Part XXV from elcapfool:
"What I saw on WoS was that someone had beaten the rock with a hammer. I don't pretend to know who did it, but it looks to me that someone was trying to erase placements."
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Mimi
climber
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I know, I know everyone...I have a problem with steadfast revisionism. You don't have to read it or participate. Your choice, mmmkay.
No pot shots here, BwanaDick. It's really amusing how you or one of your trolls can't resist re-stirring this pot. From what I saw posted, as you fail to recall, you 'renewed the debate' again on the 'El Cap and HD Survey' thread at around 3 am on Aug. 17th! Charles really got your goat, did he? And how could any historian not reply in jest to Largo's comment on donini's 'Most Overrated' thread about the Crucible of Greatness (and if it's not so great, how about the Crucible of Lowliness, if that makes you feel better)? Hit a nerve, did it?
It's just not right reviving the Wings of Plywood thread without doing the same to this one. The one our heroes were hiding from at the time. Nothing like a little nervous humor projection, eh Bwana? I have to say reading this thing again was brutal until it got really funny nearer the end.
We have a WOS garbage can file loaded up with all the stuff that you guys have written over the last several years. Enough to keep everyone laughing for eons. But no such fun is possible if you won't show.
We can argue forever about who started this, but if you'd like to finish it, how about participating here on your very own thread?
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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I just read every post up there and am going to continue to refrain from posting anything myself......
wait....
DOHHH!
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Endless loop in the AI....
Creak, creak, yawn.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Madbolter1 - give a shout if you make it down to PDX.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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I was about to head to bed, when it hit me what an abject waste of time these last few years have been with you, Mimi.
I've tried facts. I've tried making it heavy and keeping it light. I've tried reason and direct responses. I've tried parody. I've responded every way I can dream up... not to convince you to change your mind about the facts, because I don't think that is possible... but to change your attitude... to sort of "put it behind us," to just "agree to disagree."
But I have never in my life encountered such resilient, unreasonable, derisive hatred toward me before as that which you exhibit these last four years. You continue to justify every negative treatment of us (verbal and physical) that can be heaped upon us, as though we are somehow sub-human. I've even tried responding to you in kind, but you are impressive! You have indeed WON! I am at a standstill.
I must be slow to "get it," sort of stupid. I had hopes that even you could eventually just let it go, you know, just go forward with the minimum level of mutual human respect to just let each other be.
But you cannot stand to see me engaged in any thread on any level. Your one mode of communication is derisive hatred, attempting to lay me low in whatever venue we share; that has been the constant in your every communication to and about me.
I have never seen such a level of relentless insanity before directed at me. And I must say that it is shocking and shaking. It feels like looking into a black hole and seeing genuine, scary emptiness.
I'm not kidding about this or saying this for some sort of effect. Honestly, Mimi, your blind hatred is downright shaking after all these years. Your vicious ferocity is indeed impressive.
I have finally realized that there is NO POSSIBLE response I can give that will have any positive effect on YOU, and I cannot benefit in ANY way from further communications with you.
If "getting the last word" means "winning," then you will always win. No facts are changed, but perhaps you can eventually bring everything full circle and leave the climbing community convinced of your perspectives in spite of the facts. This appears to be your studied goal, and I'm deeply tired of fighting it.
Call it a "win." I have nothing more to say to you.
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