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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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I suggest you retire from this forum for a bit and get real with the issues you face. Brandon, I feel for you and hope that you get back on track with your life, but you need to be working with professionals not cherry picking posts to this thread. You seem out of control of your emotions and roll from one idea to another.
Small steps not huge leaps are needed. Frank assessment of your issues and the path to real change are called for and this needs to come from competent professionals and not internet forum monday morning quarterbacks.
The road ahead will be difficult and clarity will take time but you seem like you have some resilience and a degree of toughness...what you really need is to find the correct path and take the tiny, consistent steps to fruition.
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johntp
Trad climber
Punter
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I suggest you retire from this forum for a bit and get real with the issues you face.
In some ways I agree with that. On the other hand the worst thing for a recovering person is isolation. If the forum gives some form of connectivity, it's a good thing.
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johntp
Trad climber
Punter
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Brandon- Anti-depressants are the first thing prescribed for alcoholics.
Anti-depressants can often bring on vivid dreams.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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The running is for sure trading one addiction for another. Everyone in rehab was against that I disagree with this a lot. If you're an addictive type, it will never go away, IMO, it will always be something. Nailing that addiction to something reasonably healthy and productive is definitely the one and only way out.
I tend to agree with Donini as well, but that premise assumes the mental health industry is filled with people who know what they are doing - however the reality I've found is it isn't - a psych major is one of the easiest degrees you can get and classes are full of damaged kids there more to figure themselves out than to make a difference - later their primary interest turns more to getting a rather meager paycheck out of your insurance company to put food on their table, above all else. IMO - in general. What to do instead? Read a lot, self help books are a thriving industry and there are some classics out there - and connect with others like you - which happens to some degree here - and yeah, it's good to go see a shrink, but don't let that be your only solace.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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^^^ The running joke at the last university where I taught concerned the social work department's motto: "We take broken people and turn them into care-givers." The fact was: "We take broken people and turn them into broken people making more broken people."
There are SOME mental-health professionals that are very good. The substance-abuse professional that leases our bottom floor is very good. But, sadly, they are few and far between. Far too many are just bringing their own pathology into their "counseling," and the oversight at the State level is a joke.
This thread is a train-wreck of "caring" diagnoses, co-dependency, narcissism, and inappropriate "sharing." And anybody who calls it what it IS gets dog-piled by the codependent people here. Brandon doesn't need THIS! He needs to be in a rehab center until he is released by a professional (if he had the balls and self-awareness to go get checked in!). "Isolation" is a ridiculous concern. He's already shared that he's in regular contact with people outside of this thread. And this thread is about the WORST way imaginable to "solve" any "isolation" problems!
This thread is just contributing to his narcissism, which is a fundamental aspect of the addictive psychology. HE won't shut it down. But all you "caring" people should have the sense to care in an appropriate way, which virtually by definition means NOT on a public forum!
So, let the dog-piling on me begin; you'll be wasting your time, because you won't be affecting me, but, you know, if it makes you FEEL good (which is all that matters)....
Meanwhile, SOMEBODY who actually does care, should insist that he get into VERY structured and ongoing treatment. He's made enough orbital-module statements on this very thread that his friends should be MUCH more concerned about his mental state than the codependency here seems to recognize.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Lol. The final word from the grand knower of all things.
LOL... posted from an account with 26 posts on a politard thread and this one.
Pffffttttt
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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There is no right way to get sober. Brandon will find his way, so long as he doesn't drink. His path may not be our path; it may be wildly different than ours.
However, I have been a little concerned about the lack of mention of alcohol in B's posts. I may get abuse from this question, but Brandon -how many days since your last drink?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Madbolter1...we are in agreement.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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^^^ Thanks, Jim. I'm glad to hear it.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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I have seen the “ professionals “ Screwup the treatment of two recovering alcoholics and almost lead to their deaths ( The wrong depression medications and not monitored enough ) So forgive me if I don’t give them complete confidence over other people who may have experienced or seen similar situations.
Brandon, as I said here before take everything you read here with a grain of salt. Probably the best thing you can get out of this is just general support and caring. Is it narcissism or codependence, who cares, if it helps it helps.
Ultimately you are the best judge of what is best for you. Give credence to the professionals first, but realize they can make mistakes, or may not know what’s the best for you in particular. But Don’t use that as an excuse to not do hard things.
Then give credence to the people who have been through what you’re going through and been successful, while again realizing what worked for them may not work for you.
Finally pick up tidbits from everyone else.
Just a reminder from what I posted earlier, make sure you have a good doctor prescribing depression drugs. There are multiple types like Zoloft, Paxil etc. If they put you on the wrong one it can do more harm than good. Even with the right one the dosage needs to be correct, which could take some fine-tuning. They should be checking in with you periodically to see how things are going like at least once a week. And adjusting accordingly.
And be wary of the short term fixes like Ativan or Valium. They may get you through a anxiety attack but they are very addictive and can cause long-term issues. They may have not given you anything like that, but again I’ve seen screwup‘s and want to give you a heads up so you are aware
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johntp
Trad climber
Punter
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I may get abuse from this question, but Brandon -how many days since your last drink?
To be honest, that is in my mind. I wish all the best for him, but having hallucinations and DTs while in rehab makes me wonder if he really did detox. Not passing judgement, but as a recovering alcoholic, it raises questions.
The reason I say this is my detox took six days and cost $5k. Before rehab.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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yes this thread is an odd show, yes it is full of oversharing and boundary issues, plenty of questionable advice and odd digital-world diagnoses, but we all gotta find our way somehow.
I hope you're staying strong Brandon, and at least minimizing the sauce. Give me a call sometime soon, and I'll do the same. Sorry to miss your call-back the other day.
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
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I suggest you retire from this forum for a bit and get real with the issues you face.
In some ways I agree with that. On the other hand the worst thing for a recovering person is isolation. If the forum gives some form of connectivity, it's a good thing.
Yes, what would John do then? Post all day on another thread?
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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I think Brandon has been pretty smart with all the varied suggestions. He doesn't battle people, which is something I could try harder to do.
There are also online AA groups, I'm on one that a bunch of people I got sober with also are on. If I lived in a smaller town, I'd absolutely add that as part of my routine. Have to admit, as I've been in AA meetings as I travel, some of them are pretty...well, lacking in sobriety. Was at one where a guy and his non-sober partner cuddled during the meeting, and another guy who was apparently a regular was allowed to share because apparently in that meeting if you had not drank THAT day you could share. Without that in place, the meeting wouldn't have much speaking. And smoking in the meeting room was allowed... Maybe that works for some, but I walked away from that place needing another meeting!
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, Bozeman, the ocean, or ?
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how many days since your last drink?
Perfect! Cut to the chase. The crux of the immediate issue.
Enough of the verbal diarrhea.
Susan
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Mill Valley, Ca
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Brandon -how many days since your last drink?
+1000
You know, Brandon can (and probably will) come on here and say he's stone cold sober, but we can't see whether his eyes are clear or bloodshot, or if he smells of booze. I've been around plenty of heavy drinkers (many of them in denial about it when it was obvious), and saw a friend literally drink himself to death before the age of 50. I've grown weary of BS.
Is there anyone who is in physical contact with Brandon verify that he is indeed sober and that his breath doesn't reek? Or are we all getting our chains jerked and time wasted here?
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 6, 2019 - 09:04am PT
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I’ve been sober for a little over a month. Feeling ostracized, so I’m checking out. Not from life, just ST.
No, HK, there is nobody on ST who is close to me. maybe High Desert DJ, he was up at Dartmouth, but he’s fallen off the map. Wilbeer is a few hours away, but that’s a long way in a Vanagon. Perswig lives in Maine, but I’m guessing that it’s 4-5 hours to his zone. All alone, boo hoo. I’ll persevere man, it’s just a super rough time right now.
Home meeting in Warner tonight, I always look forward to it. Lots of good friends there.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Brandon - I am sorry if my post and the related comments has upset you.
My hope is that you are clean and sober, and would be happy to celebrate even so much as one day. The reason I asked is that I have sponsored in AA a small number of people who, even as they went to meetings and shared about life, eventually came to a point where they shared they had actually slipped up, or had continued to drink in a controlled way, or had turned to prescription drugs or whatever; that they'd been keeping it secret, and it had come to a point where to do so was causing them more pain than to be honest.
People getting sober often want desperately to please those in their corner, and suffer at the thought of letting them down.
I was concerned that since there had been so little(none, pretty much) reference to dealing with new sobriety, that perhaps.... I'll come right out and say it - that you may have slipped and just didn't want to let "us" down by telling us. I know that can seem like the most horrible thing. Very tough.
And, though I knew my post had the potential to upset you, I was hoping it would give you the opportunity to deal with it. Believe me - I wish you only a sober path forward.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Question for those in the AA or similar recovery worlds:
Does being "sober" mean that you've 100% abstained from alcohol, or rather that you've not become intoxicated (which of course is somewhat subjective)?
In other words, in normal conversation, I think it would be accurate to say you're sober if you've had one (or maybe more) drinks, as long as you're not drunk. But I'm not sure that would pass muster in the AA world.
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