crumbling Freedom of the Press too divisive to discuss?

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feralfae

Boulder climber
in the midst of a metaphysical mystery
Feb 27, 2017 - 01:48pm PT
I find this site fairly level-handed. ff

Trump's Troublesome Tweet on the Debt
President Trump’s Saturday morning tweet on the national debt left many budget watchers scratching their heads about its dubious factoid and irrelevant comparison.

Here’s what Trump said: “The media has not reported that the National Debt in my first month went down by $12 billion vs a $200 billion increase in Obama first mo.”

The facts are accurate but meaningless. Trump correctly claims that the debt went down in his first month as president. There are, however, two problems with this claim. First, the time frame is totally arbitrary. The debt number can fluctuate widely on a day-to-day basis. For example, from January 10 to January 12 this year the debt fell by $22 billion. On the other hand, from January 13 to January 18 it rose by $21 billion.

As Keith Hennessey, former director of the National Economic Council under President George W. Bush, noted, if Trump had “ended his timeframe one day earlier this tweet would have been invalid and debt would have increased (by just $1 B) in ‘the first month.’ ”
...
We will have to wait many months, if not years, to see what effect Trump’s fiscal policies have on the debt. Budget trends take time to develop. They are not shown by one-month comparisons taken out of context. What we do know is that the Congressional Budget Office projects steadily rising deficits and debt over the next 10 years under current law.
...
In the meantime, it is unsettling that the president would think such a meaningless factoid is worthy of public attention. Credibility on the numbers is a valuable and fragile commodity.

http://www.concordcoalition.org/tabulation/trumps-troublesome-tweet-debt
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Feb 27, 2017 - 02:03pm PT
The National debt will go up as Trump cuts taxes and spends like a mad man on the military, the wall, deporting, and his secret service detail of protecting his 100s of properties, Trump Tower, Mar Largo and his weekly golfing trips.

The GOP will try and bury it until we get the next Democrat in office, and then the National debt will be a crisis again.

Obama's first month was hit by the GOP bailing out the banks and the unfunded Iraq war that Bush kept off the books.
And none of Obama's budgets were ever implemented, it was the GOP's budget all 8 years and a series of continuing resolutions because the GOP could not get their austerity budget cuts through
ecdh

climber
the east
Feb 27, 2017 - 02:16pm PT
When the most important story in the press is the wrong announcement at an award ceremony and what some celebrities tweeted about it, the battle for media potency has been long lost.

Face it, the US has become what it confronts - a drunken monkey stung by a wasp.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 27, 2017 - 03:32pm PT
In denying entry to select individuals, did any executive branch people break any laws? Not that I could discover.
Did Trump break any laws, or simply exercise his social prerogative through his representative, the Press Secretary? Again, I could not discover that either of them broke any laws.
(The press, the site you sent me to being a prime example, appears especially offended and pouting at not getting to swing their weight, deliver editorialized questions, or simply make statements of their political positions, at the White House press conferences as they are used to doing.)
Did Trump shut down any media outlets? Not that I could discover.
Did the press members who were excluded examine their own actions? Not that I could discover.
Was any member of the press threatened? Was the press threatened? Not that I could discover.

As I interpret this, some press members were denied entry to an invitation-only press event. Other press members were invited. The ones not invited have blown this out of proportion and claimed that Trump is denying First Amendment Rights. Some individual people were excluded, but not the press as a whole. My understanding is that the Press Secretary has the right and power to determine which press representative attend these press events. My old press card would not get me admitted, I am sure.

I will explore further.
Thank you for the suggestion.
ff


That the ''simple, acknowledged principles'' embodied in the First Amendment have occasioned controversy without end both in the courts and out should alert one to the difficulties latent in such spare language.

Insofar as there is likely to have been a consensus, it was no doubt the common law view as expressed by Blackstone. ''The liberty of the press is indeed essential to the nature of a free state; but this consists in laying no previous restraints upon publications, - See more at: http://constitution.findlaw.com/amendment1/annotation06.html#1[/quote]
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 27, 2017 - 03:39pm PT
If I were inviting people to a press conference of mine (yes, I've held a few) I'd probably not invite the press representatives of the KKK or the far right, nor those of the far left. I'd try to invite the least biased and most accurate reporters I could find. If reporters had been disruptive, rude, or pontificating at a prior press conference, I might not invite them. If they were critical, editorializing rather than reporting, I might not invite them. If I considered them to be inimical in their reporting, I might not invite them.

Perhaps you have. However, I doubt that you held press conferences representing the Gov't of the US.

On your private property, you could allow who you wanted to hold an event. However, if it were a public space, you could not discriminate in that way.

This has to do with the difference between the inability of the gov't to "pick sides" and the private sector, which can.
feralfae

Boulder climber
in the midst of a metaphysical mystery
Feb 27, 2017 - 04:28pm PT
Ken M wrote:
Perhaps you have. However, I doubt that you held press conferences representing the Gov't of the US.
On your private property, you could allow who you wanted to hold an event. However, if it were a public space, you could not discriminate in that way.
This has to do with the difference between the inability of the gov't to "pick sides" and the private sector, which can.

Yes, very good point. My press conferences, all but one, have been on private property. And no one was hanging on my every word, although I did get some interesting questions sometimes. My answers were not going to inform, deceive or even amuse and entertain an entire nation. Maybe a few archaeologists and anthropologists. That's about it.

Yours is a remarkably good point. But then the president is going to need a huge stadium, or live streaming, to fit in everyone who would love to be at a presidential press conference, eh? Not that there is any reason that should not happen, even if an individual is representing no more than his Neighborhood Watch newsletter. Since presently, press conferences are often held in the home of the First Family, I think there must be protocols which limit entry.

That is still a good point, generally and specifically.
Thank you.
ff
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Feb 27, 2017 - 05:34pm PT
Bush Weighs In On Trump Presidency, Calling Press 'Indispensable To Democracy'

In a speech in Canada just weeks into the Obama presidency, Bush told his audience he wouldn't spend his time criticizing Obama, "and if he wants my help, he can pick up the phone and call me."

Which brings us to NBC's Today on Monday morning.
It was Bush's first interview since Donald Trump was sworn in as president.

"I consider the media to be indispensable to democracy. We need an independent media to hold people like me to account. Power can be very addictive. And it can be corrosive. And it's important for the media to call to account people who abuse their power, whether it be here or elsewhere."

Bush noted that he spent a lot of time trying to persuade Russian President Vladimir Putin to accept the notion of an independent press.

http://www.npr.org/2017/02/27/517547987/bush-weighs-in-on-trump-presidency-calling-press-indispensable-to-democracy

“It's kind of hard to tell others to have an independent free press when we're not willing to have one ourselves,” Bush said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/02/27/george-w-bush-critiques-trump-on-travel-ban-free-press/?utm_term=.33001f9a9f31
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 27, 2017 - 06:24pm PT
Yours is a remarkably good point. But then the president is going to need a huge stadium, or live streaming, to fit in everyone who would love to be at a presidential press conference, eh? Not that there is any reason that should not happen, even if an individual is representing no more than his Neighborhood Watch newsletter. Since presently, press conferences are often held in the home of the First Family, I think there must be protocols which limit entry.

Indeed.

This was addressed through "press pools" in which organizations were randomly assigned, and through vetting of organizations to assure that they were, actually, "mainstream media"--perhaps with requirements of publishing frequency, I'm not sure.

This site references some of the requirements. I had not known of the Secret Service background check, but it makes sense:

http://foreignpolicy.com/2010/06/07/can-the-white-house-revoke-a-reporters-credentials/

there apparently are about 2,000 currently accredited reporters
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Feb 27, 2017 - 08:06pm PT
It doesn't do much good to have a free press when half the voters are illiterate....More military spending and less funding for education...
feralfae

Boulder climber
in the midst of a metaphysical mystery
Feb 27, 2017 - 08:16pm PT
So is Trump simply opening the invitations from the pool to toss in some lesser presses, beyond the usual suspects?

Thank you for the information on the protocols. Fascinating. I knew it could not be open to everyone, and with 2,000 credential-holders, I can see how one might not be invited to every event. (But a gracious person would have publicly posted a list of invitees far enough in advance for there to be no awkward moments. Or was there an advance notice, and some press members showed up anyway? What is the back story? Anyone know?)

Not that I think for a moment that Trump is not capable of being as snarky as he wants to be.

ff
WBraun

climber
Feb 27, 2017 - 08:21pm PT
Trump is the Kazarian mob's puppet who are trying hard as hell to take over the world ......

(evil fukers, really really evil) Most mobsters will not kill children, but these fukers do
monolith

climber
state of being
Feb 27, 2017 - 08:28pm PT
Yeah, lets spend more on the military and cut education and the environment.

Military spending
feralfae

Boulder climber
in the midst of a metaphysical mystery
Feb 27, 2017 - 08:42pm PT
Source, monolith?
Not questioning your research, but it always builds credibility to cite sources, especially for graphics. And it gives readers a place to check for more information. :)
Thank you.
ff
Yury

Mountain climber
T.O.
Feb 27, 2017 - 08:47pm PT
rottingjohnny

It doesn't do much good to have a free press when half the voters are illiterate...
What is that mythical free independent press that was mentioned quite a few times in this discussion?
It doesn't exist in any established country.

For example in Russia it was present only around year 1917 and around year 1990 during Russian communist and capitalist revolutions.
Now press in Russia is well controlled. :(

Similarly in the US we do not have free independent press. :(
It's controlled by:
 big money
 liberals (with Fox being the only survivor)
 US states department through its daily foreign policy briefings
monolith

climber
state of being
Feb 27, 2017 - 08:47pm PT
Do your own research, FF. You are the only one who can convince yourself. Any source I give you will be called fake news.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Feb 27, 2017 - 08:48pm PT
No worries. USA outspends our 6-7 nearest competitors COMBINED!!

But just remember, we're so depleted and weak...

Don't look away, just remember that we've always been at war with Oceania.

Don't read any Kafka. Don't read any Ginsberg. Dirty fags and immigrants. White bread only please. Stare into the Spicer machine.
monolith

climber
state of being
Feb 27, 2017 - 08:57pm PT
Here is the NY Times version on military spending. Its a few years old so I'm sure it will be discounted.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/03/11/us/politics/cutting-the-worlds-most-expensive-military.html?_r=0

BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Feb 27, 2017 - 09:05pm PT
^^^ that was from 2013 mono, wtf?

Say sumpton realavent.
monolith

climber
state of being
Feb 27, 2017 - 09:06pm PT
Haha, I told you it was a few years old and would be discounted. So what Blueblocr. Has there been a dramatic change?

We easily outspend the sum of the other top 10 countries.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Feb 27, 2017 - 09:11pm PT
"Crumbling military"? ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!

Fixed it for you.
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