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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 24, 2017 - 12:26pm PT
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I wrote the title somewhat in sarcastic jest, but it is transforming to dread as I realize it is probably true. Some (many?) people are so short-sighted in supporting a partisan agenda that they don't realize how much suffering and blood of the past they are disrespecting, the hard-fought battle to create a nation where people of different creeds and aspirations and values can live in relative harmony and pursue whatever makes them happy.
Some might argue that every press outlet has a hidden agenda, a political bias, and that there is nothing sacred being violated here, just more political machinations. But think about what it means for the vibrancy of our democracy when organizations representing a variety of viewpoints do not have access to reporting the happenings of our elected government?
Many folks were quick to insult Bernie by calling him a Socialist or a Commie, and many here still do, with the intent of tying him to the negative associations of cold-war era Soviet Union. One of the hallmark features of that government that we feared was control of the media, making it a marketing machine for the distorted vision of those controlling the government. It even has an appropriate name, Правда (Pravda: "Truth").
I'm getting a headache from the irony whacking me over the head repeatedly.
We know where Trump is steering people:
The FAKE NEWS media (failing @nytimes, @NBCNews, @ABC, @CBS, @CNN) is not my enemy, it is the enemy of the American People!
And now we have this:
CNN and other news organizations were blocked Friday from an off-camera White House press briefing.
There was no immediate explanation from the White House.
The New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, and Politico were also excluded from the meeting, which is known as a gaggle and is less formal than the televised Q-and-A session in the White House briefing room.
The Associated Press and Time magazine boycotted the briefing because of how it was handled. The White House Correspondents Association is protesting.
The conservative media organizations Breitbart News, The Washington Times and One America News Network were allowed in.
Related: Trump rips media, repeats 'enemy of the people' line
Hours earlier, at the Conservative Political Action Conference outside Washington, President Trump mocked and disparaged the news media. He said that much of the press represents "the enemy of the people."
"They are the enemy of the people because they have no sources," Trump said. "They just make them up when there are none."
He also said reporters "shouldn't be allowed" to use unnamed sources.
"A few days ago I called the fake news the enemy of the people, and they are — they are the enemy of the people," Trump told the annual Conservative Political Action Conference.
While praising some reporters as honest, and pledging fealty to the First Amendment, Trump claimed that "the fake news media doesn't tell the truth." He said reporters should not be allowed to use anonymous sources, and "we're going to do something about it."  http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/02/24/donald-trump-cpac-media-enemy-of-the-people/98347970/
Because how can the sources be accused of being pedophiles or rapists before they have an unrelated car accident or heart attack, if we don't know who they are? This is amidst an internal crackdown in FBI to find who leaked the stuff about Flynn that led to him needing to be fired.
I don't disrespect people for having a different political opinion from me, for valuing different things or seeing different ways to solve problems. I might vehemently disagree with what people perceive as root problems and how to address them, and I might harbor judgments about people's powers of perceptions or intellect. But I still try to keep a bridge open to foster a common understanding where we can, and I'm always ready to have someone show me a perspective I didn't consider or appreciate.
But how does any person reconcile these threats to our democracy and access to information, with the benefits they hope to achieve? How die-hard do you have to be in a partisan agenda for these ends to justify the means? When does it become too much?
I do hope that folks like Dr F can stay on point and not just turn it into a grudge match "All Republicans are evil, they hate everything, they want to extract all of your dollars and productivity and crush your soul before crushing your life, so you have to vote Democrat or you are helping to kil our civilization." Whether or not something like that is true, having that type of conversation is a shortcut to alienating a large part of the people who have to be part of the solution, and it's a shortcut to having the thread locked, deleted, and fewer people will be aware of what is happening. We've been there before, let's not repeat the pattern please.
Let's be cordial and write something that has a chance of lasting; don't be baited by the nihilists who want the discussion to descend to chaos and laugh as our voice is silenced in a deleted thread.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 24, 2017 - 12:44pm PT
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Russ, grow a pair and actually share what is in your heart.
TGT2, what do you see as the antidote? From my perspective, having access to a variety of perspectives is a critical foundation of any reason-based process. We all have access to see who owns different outlets and what bent or bias they might have as part of informing our opinion.
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Eric Beck
Sport climber
Bishop, California
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Feb 24, 2017 - 12:48pm PT
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Trump is right to hate the media. The establishment hates Trump and are disparaging him at every opportunity. CNN is the worst.
I am not a Trump supporter and find it somewhat odd to be uttering a word in his defense. The big picture is that the last election was the first time that large numbers in both parties rebelled against 1% rule. One percent rule is the way it has been forever. Remember the divine right of kings?
I didn't vote for Trump and told my friends that a vote for Hillary was a vote for endless war.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Feb 24, 2017 - 12:48pm PT
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No TGT, it's more like somethings do change.
Did Thomas Jefferson bar the press he didn't like from the White House?
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Feb 24, 2017 - 12:49pm PT
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The art of leadership... consists in consolidating the attention of the people against a single adversary and taking care that nothing will split up that attention. Adolf Hitler
The media does not, and will never speak for the American people. And we're going to do something about it.
Donald Trump
The media is not my enemy, it is the enemy of the American people.
Donald Trump
If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed. Adolf Hitler
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 24, 2017 - 12:52pm PT
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I suspect any elected politician will grow to hate nearly half the media if not more. But that is different from actively blocking.
I'm all for laws that seek to enforce truth. But it is a really difficult area. I have been in a court of law with an opposing party uttering lies that I have verifiable proof to refute, and my own lawyer told me it doesn't matter, the judge assumes we are both lying.
As best I can see in our modern society, the notion of truth is not like a discrete particle, but more like a probabilistic cloud. How can you wrap your fingers around a cloud? The best we can do is ensure that cloud is comprised of more sources and increase the transparency for each of us to vet the quality of sources we consume.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
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Feb 24, 2017 - 12:53pm PT
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Russ, grow a pair and actually share what is in your heart.
So basically when you say “grow a pair” you’re telling that person to “be a man”. You’re reinforcing the stereotype that men are stronger and more courageous than women.
Why are lefties sooo sexist and why do they hate America?
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Feb 24, 2017 - 12:57pm PT
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The antagonism - and it goes both ways - is a sign of a healthy democracy.
This thread has a half-life of . . .
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Feb 24, 2017 - 12:58pm PT
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Russ, do you support the suppression of the free press?
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 24, 2017 - 12:59pm PT
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I guess I made it too easy to fight the wrong fight. I was wrong and surrender that point Russ. Whether it's testes or ovaries, it is still disrespectful of me. I am frustrated when you take an important issue that affects us all, and laugh it off or play the peanut gallery as if it doesn't affect your life, or the life of people you care about, or the lives of people they care about.
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drF
Trad climber
usa
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Feb 24, 2017 - 01:04pm PT
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Nut,
Another garbage politard thread...why? Take it to a politard forum where you will have an audience that has the intellectual/educational prowess to have real conversations. Or...goto a place where you can actually talk to people in person on these subjects that seem to be troubling you.
All you're going to get here are brainwashed clowns who repost BS MSM smears with zero factual basis. Clowns who actually compare Trump with Hitler. Single digit on the I.Q scale
Delete this trash....please
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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Feb 24, 2017 - 01:05pm PT
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If it is too divisive that we can't discuss/find common ground to ensure something like 'free press' is not abolished as it benefits ALL of us, then we must be as thin skinned as the folks in charge that drive this kind of agenda.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 24, 2017 - 01:11pm PT
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This discussion has a point other than partisan politics. This is about what we consider sacred in our country that should not be subject to partisan destruction.
Are we really ok with only having information from government-sanctioned media outlets? This isn't something to be pigeon-holed in a political-junky forum.
I always teach my kids about linking rights and freedoms with responsibilities. As citizens of a "free" country we have responsibilities to help ensure it remains that way. Ensuring that the populace is aware of information that affects their lives is a foundation of any voting democracy that hopes to support the interests of the people. You can't act on what you don't know.
Many people here may be disgusted/fatigued/etc. with news and just ignore it now. Even if you need to tune out for sanity, I want to increase awareness here, to remind folks of what I consider our responsibilities as citizens (of USA or whatever country).
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c wilmot
climber
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Feb 24, 2017 - 01:16pm PT
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You are basing your opinions on the belief that the media is somehow impartial or non partisan. The media has been lying and misleading people forever.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Feb 24, 2017 - 01:19pm PT
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This type of rhetoric is dangerous. There is no doubt about that.
Whether the media outlets affected can rally the media outlets on the inside of the nouveau propaganda machine to protest remains to be seen.
This is new ground. Write letters to the media editors so that they know you are watching for their own leadership on freedom of the press issues.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 24, 2017 - 01:21pm PT
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c_wilmot, if you read my earlier posts you will see that I do not believe the media is impartial. I want the freedom to consume information from any source and to use my own powers of research and discernment to decide the quality of that information. I don't want the Whitehouse forming cozy alliances and blocking non-drinkers of the Koolaid.
We are getting much too close for my comfort to this:
“The past was alterable. The past never had been altered. Oceania was at war with Eastasia. Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia.”
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drF
Trad climber
usa
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Feb 24, 2017 - 01:21pm PT
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You can't act on what you don't know.
But you can act on lies?
The hatred for the media is non-partisan and BY the people. Not what Trump or any other politician says. The MSM is in the business of making money...not truth. If you want truth, you have to work harder...dig. Goto the source. Be prepared to find things that go against your confirmation biases
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c wilmot
climber
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Feb 24, 2017 - 01:23pm PT
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Trump is not the first pres to influence the media...
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