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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Tom, Big Wall climber! San Luis Obispo CA, Jan 20, 2016 - 09:09pm PT
The Spaceship Moon Theory claims that the moon, as an alien UFO parked in orbit around the Earth .... is a hollowed-out artificial structure containing an underground base serving also as the interior of a gigantic UFO spaceship.
Yeah? Where'd they get that much Shot-Crete? And how'd they keep the water from out-gassing as the heat of reaction was liberated?
I ain't buyin' your Mouse Moon Theory, pal.
It don't add up.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Trying to hear what the status, the real plausibility of space exploration by manned vehicle
Or some sort of projection or propelled unit is still seemingly theory.
I said it else where, and Tom schooled me, but I'm gonna say it again.
If man could - occupy, live and use the moon
our closest, potential base for space exploration
Someone, the USA, China , Russia,
would have revisited and colonized the moon already
zB your welcome,
but since I started, the post count dropped? From 297 back to 257?
( I think or I could be wrong )
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Technology will not only change our culture on Earth, technology will save mankind.
I agree with Rick that a space elevator, if it can be successful, will be essential to the development of our Solar System in the long term.
Thanks for the space elevator link Rick.
Gravity free manufacturing in geostationary orbits.
The concept of following the water and going to Mars and Europa is intriguing.
This manned development of our Solar System will be the frontier for the next century or two.
Exciting times we live in, and future generations will carry on.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Good stuff here. Fun reading.
Even the merest baby steps would be huge. Eg: Mark Watney and friends on Mars for a couple months stay in a 1,000 ft2 hab. It would be so inspirational. Even just the achievement alone, in itself.
I think it's going to happen.
About the other stuff, I don't know.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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When the DOD is willing to spend $325 Million per copy on the F 35 fighter (worthless), and were ordering something like 850 of them, then it doesn't make the price of a trip to Mars seem so outlandish. The F 35 is only "wanted" by the Marine Corps for the ability to engage in VTOL maneuvers. Otherwise, it's a POS airplane. The movie The Martian incorporated some very interesting concepts, such as gradual acceleration from Earth orbit in a reusable deep space spaceship (suggested by Buzz Aldrin), and the concept of generation of the MAV (Mars ascent vehicle) fuel from the Martian atmosphere. What's really expensive is considering all the hardware developed as "throwaways. If we are gonna' do this , we need to plan on a sustainable presence on the Red Planet. Then--next step--Europa.
Edit; just researched price of the F 35 program: $1.3 Trillion.!!!!!!
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 4, 2016 - 06:24pm PT
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How Much Does it Cost to Create a Single Nuclear Weapon?
Food for thought or bombs for peace? Not a simple answer.
What does all this add up to? Assuming the DOE and DOD plans move forward, and the United States makes further modest reductions in its deployed and reserve arsenal (to a total of 3,000 weapons) the United States will spend some $250 billion on new nuclear warheads and delivery systems in the next few decades. That's roughly equal to 30 years of federal funding for Head Start programs for kids at 2012 enrollment levels.
http://www.ucsusa.org/publications/ask/2013/nuclear-weapon-cost.html#.VrQHUPkrKM8
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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$1.5 trillion / 35 year = $42.5B / yr << $500B for yearly trip to Mar.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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How's the state of technology progressing for the space elevator?
. there are no known materials that have been manufactured that meet the requirements
. elevator power is an issue
. space junk in low earth orbit is bad enough to be an important constraint, and this is only getting worse
aside from that, no problem.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Right. Doesn't sound like much more of a feat than negotiating an LA freeway during rush hour in a tin and plastic EV.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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space junk is a big problem, the stuff is moving fast, in random directions, and is growing exponentially...
estimates indicate a hit a week for the space-elevator...
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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A False Analogous Supposition?
We got a man on the Moon; surely we can get a city on Mars!
ED,
the group you are presenting useful constraints to just cannot grasp the hard details. We are fortunate to have a Congress that can understand the constrains of space travel and make appropriate budgets. Fear drives defence budgets and the realization of uselessness stops lunatic space voyages.
And here we see minds that again and again ignore the hard details. A stupid bunch of people? But I sleep peacefully knowing they couldn't successfully lobby the dumbest Congress to appropriate 10 cents on a Mars trip. Why? They cannot address the hard details.
Yeah, living on Mars sounds really neat! Every time you go outside to play you don a space suit for the rest of your days. Yes, climbers it is really suited to what we do in the outside. I'd rather grab some handholds with finger tips.
Long live Buckaroo Bonzai -- he figured it out.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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With age goes the elasticity of thought necessary to solve the problems of entry to the new frontiers. Fortunately humans, at least the non metro sexual and non LGBT communities, still are fruitful in producing the fresh new minds that see opportunity beyond the trivialities of yesterday's problems. It's sad to see once bright minds calcify and wither away, but scientific frontiers advance one funeral at a time.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Yes, yes, Dingus, we (I) get all that.
But if you want to go all extreme and contrarian and scary re 21st century high tech (abuses, etc) be sure not to leave out psychotropic pharmaceutical tech.
S.C.A.R.Y.
Up there with Virtual Reality Immersion, it's my own personal favorite (answer) to the Fermi Paradox. I mean, if I had to place a bet re "Where is everybody?"
.....
Rick, I may have missed it on the political threads: Are you a Trump supporter, just curious.
.....
In other words, as soon as a high-tech-capable species anywhere in the galaxy figures out "mind is what brain does" this "technological adolescent" tinkers with it, figures out which buttons to push, which pins to apply a voltage to, which drugs to inject where - and then they eagerly lose themselves under a VR helmet in pure imaginable heroinesque ecstasy until it's... well... time to die.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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it is easy to get lost in the stereotypical story of the lone genius overcoming the entreaties of their slouching colleagues to achieve that singularly brilliant solution to the "impossible" problem.
However, if you look past the rosy glow of the space-elevator public pronouncements, the people hard at work scoping out the requirements are dealing with a number of details which each present daunting technical and political challenges.
The space-junk I referred to is a real problem to all space faring activities. If you are old enough you remember the back roads of California (and much of the west) littered with the rusting frames of abandoned vehicles. Imagine that floating in orbit, and not standing still, but moving with speeds of tens of thousands mile per hour. This stuff presently careens around the Earth, abandoned stages of satellite launches, old satellites no longer used, who knows what else... on top of that, add the "natural" bombardment of stuff moving with hyper-velocity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_debris
As stuff is dumped on this "road side" it doesn't just sit there and rust, it is moving around and in a random sort of way collides with other stuff, making more stuff... smaller, but equally capable of doing kinetic mayhem.
This is an exponentiating problem... and as we launch more we make more stuff to make more stuff...
Space, (or at least near space), is the final technology junk yard. To clean it up will require the support of the international community, both the political and the commercial interests that now govern space policy. Complicating the political issues are national security concerns, space being the ultimate "high ground," though by treaty being used only for "passive" military activities. Cleaning up this mess will cost real money.
In this literal cloud of high velocity, high kinetic energy, swirling around in ever arbitrary orbits, managing the orbital intersection (aka collisions) with a fixed cable of truly unimaginable length has to be a part of the "risk management" for the project.
I like the idea of a space-elevator, it's actually a very old idea having been around for over 100 years... modern technological work on materials has given some hope to the eventual practical realization, but there are many very hard problems to overcome, and they aren't so easy to solve.
I'm not saying they can't be solved, it is possible that something else might come along as a better solution.
You can read about the physics of the space elevator here:
http://users.wpi.edu/~paravind/Publications/PKASpace%20Elevators.pdf
there are many interesting topics in physics, engineering, material science, computational science to engage in while mulling the idea. Those of you with the odd combination of being romantics and pragmatists will tire at the endlessness of the details.
But the devil is in the details... and the ride up to heaven, if heaven is a floor button on the elevator's panel, is not going to be available anytime soon.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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60 Minutes not long ago did a piece on space junk and what it means to orbiting astronauts and stations - particularly if we pollute our orbit space (exponentially) with debris from satellite killers and other star wars weaponry. The prospect was very disheartening. Let's hope we can get / keep our act together and always prevent this from happening.
It was clear from the piece that the military (U.s., China) was actively engaged in anti-satellite counter measures r&d.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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well I am the atheist in a dirty job... what else you got?
We... lol.
You and alllllllllll the friends you've made on ST hahahahahaha.
DMT
See you in hell, dmt.
Be sure to bring allllll YOUR friends. lol
hahahahahaha.....
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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...particularly if we pollute our orbit space (exponentially) with debris from satellite killers and other star wars weaponry.
you don't get it... independent of the intentional satellite killer activities, all this junk will collide with all that junk on its own, pure random chance, making even more junk...
it's not because of the military operations, it's because we just like to throw stuff out our "car windows"
the Cosmos-Iridium encounter was random... and a real wake-up call.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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you don't get it... independent of the intentional satellite killer activities
I don't get it?
I thought I did.
Particularly your points.
e.g., independent of the intentional satellite killer activities
sheesh,
time for the gym.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Since the scientific community is responsible for the orbiting junkyard perhaps they should assume responsibility for its cleanup. There is a common politically initiated answer for behavioral modification-it's called taxation. So let's account for the true social cost of this orbiting junkyard and levy the prorated taxation rate basis per scientist for it's cleanup.
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