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WBraun
climber
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"Scary is a government that claims special audience to God's ear."...
The materialistic Americans are the stupidest people on the planet.
The atheists are given intelligence to go away from god by God himself.
The theists are given intelligence to understand God by God himself.
Whatever desire the living entity has is fulfilled by God himself.
You want a Godless society you will get it.
You want a God conscious society you will get it.
The choice is yours.
The actual absolute truth remains as it is, and your free will choice still is up to you ........
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go-B
climber
Cling to what is good!
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John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
...God only will ask what YOU did with His Son Jesus!
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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...God only will ask what YOU did with His Son Jesus!
Well, when the day of reckoning comes I hope the Lord will thank me for
paying Jesus good money to paint my house. I gave him cold Snapples, too.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Anyone who believes we are a nation based on one color, creed or culture is on the wrong side of history.
 here here +1
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Christianity spread the way many memes do: it was politically expedient and good for business.
That doesn't square with history, Tvash. Hostility to Christianity arose because existing business saw Christianity as a threat. The riots in Ephesus, recorded in Acts, give a Christian perspective, but secular Roman history shows this as well. The Christians, to the Romans, were atheists because they did not believe in the Roman gods. The history of Christianity in Armenia is similar. In fact, Christianity seems to thrive in persecution, but to become corrupted when it becomes establishment.
And yes, Rosoide, Jesus claimed exclusivity. Both then and now, that exclusivity leads to hostility. I rather doubt that anyone would have been nailed to anything for saying we should be nice to each other. I have no trouble seeing how existing, establishment, religious leaders would want to exterminate someone claiming that he alone, to their exclusion, was the sole way to salvation.
That's also why the self-sufficient and self-satisfied find Christianity so offensive. Christianity requires not only acknowledgment of personal imperfection, but of a total inability to achieve righteousness on our own acts. Who likes confessing helplessness?
Only phony Christianity tries to be popular. Real, historic, Christianity is, was, and always will be hostile to the wisdom of the world.
John
P.S. To get a little closer to the OP, Donini is correct -- The US is not, was not, and will not be a "Christian nation." The idea that we have an exclusive pipeline to God -- Father, Son or Holy Spirit -- is, quite simply, blasphemous. Show me where in the Bible any nation, other than the Kingdom of Christ, can claim that distinction.
I get particularly offended when I hear that we are a Christian nation in part because Armenia was the first nation to adopt Christianity as its state religion, in 301 A.D., and my fellow Armenians like to brag that we are the "first Christian nation," while they ignore Jesus, live a life indistinguishable from anyone else (at least in virtue), and actively oppose those who actually stand for Christ. It reminds me of the "Temple of the Lord" speech in Jeremiah. Actions speak louder than words. The US has taken many laudable actions over the years, but our sins belie any claim to Godliness.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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From Tony Perkins, Family Research Council
Caller:
I wanted to see if I can get your response to the members of the clergy in Charlotte that are suing for the right to perform gay marriages, saying that the ban on gay marriage infringes on their religious rights. It’s my understanding that they are a Christian organization, it’s normally the other way around, and so I’m curious to hear what you got to say about it.
Perkins: I would use that term ‘Christian’ loosely. That title is — let’s talk biblical, here’s the deal, it’s like with the Religious Freedom Restoration Act that we worked on in Mississippi and failed in Arizona and other places, here’s a test of what is a true religious freedom, a freedom that’s based on orthodox religious viewpoints. It has to have a track record, it has to come forth from religious orthodoxy.
You can have freedom to practice your religion as long as I approve of your religion.
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/tony-perkins-arbiter-christianity-says-pro-gay-christians-dont-have-same-religious-rights-co
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TWP
Trad climber
Mancos, CO
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go-B:
I dare you to read what the good Christian (yes he was Christian, I am not being facetious) Dostoyevsky wrote about the current state of Christianity in his extended "thought experiment" within Brothers Karamazov about the Inquisitor and how he decided, when Jesus in fact returned, that for the good of Christianity and the happiness of the good Christian masses, that Jesus needed to be immediately crucified again - before the masses learned from the returned Jesus how Christianity had been hopelessly perverted by the Christian churches (both Catholic and reformed). And let there be no mistake here: by "Christian," I mean "Christians" of your ilk.
I suspect the above was so far above your head that you will not have the intellectual firepower or curiosity to take up my bet. Write me a PM if you take up my dare; I'll be waiting for a Christian eternity, no doubt.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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DMT,
The hostility to the world's wisdom is not one of "poor, pitiful me." Rather, it is a call to bravery, and a willingness to offend the powerful in the world we see, rather than to try to conform to them.
That's one of the many reasons why I bristle when I hear nominal Christians lament that we are no longer a Christian nation. If Christians were entirely comfortable in the corridors of power in this country, something was terribly wrong.
John
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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That's also why the self-sufficient and self-satisfied find Christianity so offensive.
Hi John,
can you explain your above statement in more detail for me?
for example, many people including my self are self sufficient (does that mean we don't get any kind of government assistance to you?)
what does "self satisfied" mean?
does that mean not needing a religion or a god of some sort to be satisfied in life?
ok, again, thats me and a lot of other people
but then moving we, you state that such people, like me, find Christianity offensive
I think your assumption is in error, John
I believe "we" have no problem at all with Christianity or Buddhism, etc
what we do find offensive and irritating is Christians who act "me so holy", that evangelize to anyone who will listen, etc......get this difference?
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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That doesn't square with history
since you dismissed three centuries of biblical scholarship and historiography in your earlier "why i am a premillennial" post, i don't think you can now turn around and invoke those segments of it that serve your selfish needs.
sorry, dude.
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TWP
Trad climber
Mancos, CO
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go-B.
Just going to spew Biblical quotes at us?
No guts to take up my dare?
"Incharge" is not one word, you moron. (I am quoting you go-B, three post up, before you make an editing change).
If you are going to spew, can't you at least spell?
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TWP
Trad climber
Mancos, CO
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Thanks Dr. F.
I feel better now and will ignore go-B henceforth.
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go-B
climber
Cling to what is good!
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Like I tried to say above, it all comes down to you and God. God sent His Son Jesus to bridge that gap! That's what the Bible say's sorry if you don't like that! :(
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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How many non Christian presidents have we had?
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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How many non Christian presidents have we had?
Does Dick Cheney count?
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Yes, there were early Christian persecutions - how else to explain all those sword and sandals flicks?
But Paul helped create not just a church, but also a trade organization.
Once Constantine began to believe his legitimacy to power was due to his Mother's Christian God cerca 300 AD, the Christian Roman Empire - and Christianity in general, was off to the races.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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I was referring to Christianity after Constantine, but John's comment is a fair one. Why did Christianity grow before that, and in the face of persecution?
Aside from aforementioned promises of spiritual gifts, Christianity provide a community and, more importantly, a social welfare system, in an crumbling empire wracked by famine and plagues. It was a period of massive immigration to Roman cities - Christianity provided an ready made community and social safety net for those immigrants that Rome's rulers did not.
As much of Rome's inhabitants prior to 300 had their lives threatened every day by starvation and disease, the movement was apparently worth fighting and dying for. Given the sheer scale of immigration to cities at the time, the growth rate of early Christianity is understandable.
The Romans, for their part, saw it as an obvious challenge to central power, and acted as our own nation would, and does, to such a threat.
Bundymania excepted, of course.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Sunday school paraphrased;
When you die, if you are bad person/unbeliever, the following will happen. A rather large angel with zero personality and a flaming sword, will take you to the edge of a burnig lake. The scary angel will cut off your ass with the sword and cast you into the bottomless pit to burn forever.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Pretty darn Holy, aren't you Gobee?
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