Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
ClimberDave
Trad climber
The LBC, CA
|
|
|
Feb 27, 2012 - 11:19am PT
|
Been wanting to check out Dos Chi Chis and the stuff around it, looks like some fun routes around it.
|
|
gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
|
|
|
Feb 27, 2012 - 12:40pm PT
|
The friction at J Tree is so much better than most other places that what appear to the uninitiated to be unreasonable runouts are actually quite manageable. Get used to the rock on easier stuff and ramp up the difficulty of your leads gradually. Strength, confidence, technique.
And dont focus on falling or youre sure to fall.
|
|
Robinson
Trad climber
Chattanooga
|
|
I thought it was kind of fun running it out for, what, 60' over the last quarter inch bolt of Run For Your Life et al That's J Tree!
|
|
RtM
climber
DHS
|
|
Leading in Josh is sketchy. If only I had a dollar for every time I rolled into JT with big leading plans, only to be beaten down on the warmup - and then spending the rest of the day bouldering! I have done alot of bouldering in JT
...ALOT!
|
|
Dos XX
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 5, 2012 - 12:49pm PT
|
Nice to hear some feedback from you, Mr.M. I found your recent guide to be the most useful of all, for climbs in the Indian Cove area.
|
|
john bald
climber
|
|
Thanks Todd! You made my day up here in the cold climates.
|
|
Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
|
|
I don't know if this will help, and not always, but I found that after committing to the long runouts, the difficulty isn't always sustained, but having a crux section within a safe fall distance from the last bolt with easier climbing afterwards, and yes, LONG easier climbing. Yes, you're runout but at least the difficulty is rewarded. Definitely to get into the mind of the FAscentionist is helpful, and all the other advice already given, especially experience.
You want to become a basket case?...go lead The Edge at Tahquitz (followed it) or Montezuma's Revenge, a 10a mantle on the Toad's Lip followed by a 30' unprotected, tip-toe traverse along the Toad's Lip!(lead that one), and Godzilla's Return, with 10d runouts above the Toad's Lip (only was told frightening stories about, and looked at that one from MR) at Suicide!
Let's hear about other run-out routes and your experiences with them!
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
|
|
I can remember like 40 years ago now when we were all in high school and Reinhold Messner's "Murder of the Impossible" was on everyone's mind and the talk of the day was that Royal Robbins and co. had done the Salathe Wall on El Cap, the Greatest Climb on Earth, with only 13 bolts. So the plan was to sac it up and avoid bolts so long as we could. Since many of the new routes were on faces, we had to use SOME bolts, but the idea was to always keep the numbers to a minimum.
If you went back to some of the routes that were done at Suicide right before we showed up, like Surprise, Surprise Direct, Harms Way, and others, said routes had only a few bolts per pitch and only at crux areas. The idea was that climber's had to psychologically "earn" an ascent on these routes. Bolts were spare with the intention of "keeping the fluff off," or denying the route to those not willing to earn their climb, and wanted, instead, to style by on technique and hair gel. The idea that bolt protected routes should be "safe" is something that was never considered valid until sport climbing declared the "Murder of the Impossible" ethic null and void.
Accidents were infrequent BITD because most climbers understood the risks and were trained to handle them. Now you have people used to gym bolted routes jumping on the old school shite without the training and bad things happen.
But as Randy pointed out back thread, even in the old days, the cruxes of routes were usually well or at least decently protected. But generally on old school routes, unless you're good with soloing 5.8 and running the rope a ways on 5.9, those routes should be avoided IMO.
JL
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
Well said, Largo.
What I really like is when the difficulty gradually decreases in a kind of proportional way to the runout. The old Josh Classic Compassion of The Elephants is like that.
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
yardy hoo and away... is a bit overbolted...
Ever do the one next door to the left, Morality Test? A Woodward route I think? Definitely a one timer for me. That one definitely does not feature the proportional easing of the difficulty to runout ratio.
|
|
RtM
climber
DHS
|
|
thanks dosXX - good to hear that!
ha, usually you can find bolts at cruxes in Josh, but once in a while some joker puts them just after the crux!
Black Diamond comes to mind, has a huge runout on jugs to a sketchy deadpoint move - the bolt looming just out of reach!
|
|
RtM
climber
DHS
|
|
Grand Canyon Donkey Trail also comes to mind!
Not dangerous per se, but heady moves on the sharp end.
|
|
steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
|
|
Maybe a more appropriate title for most of us would have been "SPANKED by bolt-protected climbs..."
Have retreated more than once with head hung in shame.
But what a great feeling when you keep it together and make it happen.
|
|
Gary
climber
That Long Black Cloud Is Coming Down
|
|
Have retreated more than once with head hung in shame.
But what a great feeling when you keep it together and make it happen.
That's the best! One of the most rewarding experiences there is.
|
|
The Real Mad Dog
Gym climber
Napa, CA
|
|
It's unfortunate. I think too many climbers doing first ascents do not think about safe bolt placement. It's not only Joshua Tree. In 2009, on our cross-country trip, my twin (Sly Cat) and I stopped at City of Rocks, southern Idaho, for several days of moderate leads. We did only two and then left. Why? Crux moves before the first bolt or decking before the second. In the climbs we examined, there was no reason bolts could not have been placed effectively. We were 66 at the time, and at this age, you don't want 15 to 30 foot falls to the ground.
By the way, City of Rocks, New Mexico, allows only bouldering. Hundreds of routes could be done by tossing a rope over the low, linear summits, typically 20 to 40 feet. No ropes allowed. Bring crash pads. And, they are not kidding about the rattlesnakes.
Mad Dog
|
|
Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
|
|
Good Lord Real Mad Dog, at the chance of me looking like a stalking leg humper, your post up there is a classic case of not every climb is for every person. You guys left because the bolts were too far up? How about top roping, or sissy clipping, or modified pink pointing, or something? If there were that many climbs giving you the willies that you were turned off to the area and eventually had to leave, maybe it wasn't the climbs that were the problem? I've been there by the way, and the NM area too. I agree the no ropes thing in COR_NM is funky, but I did not see any cases of thoughtless bolting or problems at the ID_COR. And believe me, we were on the moderates too.
|
|
kpinwalla2
Social climber
WA
|
|
I stopped at City of Rocks, southern Idaho, for several days of moderate leads. We did only two and then left. Why? Crux moves before the first bolt or decking before the second. In the climbs we examined, there was no reason bolts could not have been placed effectively.
The routes you describe are what inspired me to drill. At first I just complained - then decided to quit whining and be proactive. Next time you're at the City seek out Conceptual Reality, Too Much Fun, Rain Dance, Cruel Shoes, Theater of Shadows, Big Time, Continental Crust, et al. - I think you'll have a different experience... Folks have lots of reasons for climbing; for some, risk is very important, for others, not so much. Bottom line, if you like well-protected routes, then put 'em up. You'll likely have a few very vocal detractors and hordes of more soft-spoken fans - and your routes will get climbed - a lot...
|
|
mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
|
|
^^^^
Sweet, glad your doing it for the right reasons.
Pffft.
|
|
kpinwalla2
Social climber
WA
|
|
Did I mention that some of the detractors will be sarcastic a-holes? Be prepared...
|
|
MisterE
Social climber
|
|
The Way It Should Be. Holy. Crap.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!