Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
|
|
|
Apr 24, 2007 - 03:57pm PT
|
Ask him when loyalty to an organization that was happy to kick you in the gnads and support a racist Presdential campaign became more important than truth and honor.
Ask him if he would settle for being remembered as the guy who finally pile-drivered Newt Gingrich since he isn't going to be President.
|
|
dirtbag
climber
|
|
|
Apr 24, 2007 - 03:59pm PT
|
Ask him if he's wearing any underwear.
|
|
Forest
Trad climber
Tucson, AZ
|
|
|
Apr 24, 2007 - 04:08pm PT
|
Fatty, to put it in other terms:
If you gave your money to someone to manage, and after 6.5 years, they'd lost 40% of your money, would you believe them when they said they were getting things set up so you would have a 1000% profit 10 years down the road? Would you give them the rest of your retirement nest egg to manage?
Personally, I would have pulled my money back after they lost the first 10% (or sooner!) Bushco lost our "money" (world reputation, lives of our soldiers, and yes a bunch of real money) a long time ago. Continuing to back an obviously failed policy is just a poor investment strategy at this point, regardless of your initial opinions on what they were trying to do.
|
|
wiclimber
Trad climber
devil's lake, wi
|
|
|
Apr 24, 2007 - 04:26pm PT
|
You all speak with such conviction! One might be fooled in thinking ya'll actually know what you're talking about.
(just kidding!)
|
|
HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
|
|
|
Apr 24, 2007 - 04:28pm PT
|
But Forest the fundamentals are all there! We just need a lucky break. If we just hold out a little longer...say another 6 months...it will all pay off!
|
|
wildone
climber
Isolated in El Portal and loving it
|
|
|
Apr 24, 2007 - 04:38pm PT
|
Fatty, you said:
"Quite frankly it would take a very long situational story to get there, but it is the stated goal of Wahhabi clerics. Extremely unlikely in our children's lifetimes, but why can't we just take measures to ensure that it never happens..."
I ask, AND WHY DO YOU THINK THEY WANT TO DO THAT??????? Gosh, out of the blue, they must hate us for no reason? How about, oh, I don't know, it's because of how we treat them?
I would think a way to "ensure that it never happens" is to stop antagonizing them!
|
|
Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
|
|
|
Apr 24, 2007 - 04:41pm PT
|
re: waiting another 6 months (to see how the escalation pans out)
what it will accomplish is that (fatty and) 'the right' will forever claim that a 'democrat persident' pulled us out of iraq before the job was done, and thus whatever nightmares may grow there will be portrayed by faux news and the like as being the fault and the responsibility of the 'weak on defense democrats'.
kick it on down the rove, karl, kick it on down the rove...
|
|
UncleDoug
Social climber
N. lake Tahoe
|
|
|
Apr 25, 2007 - 11:18am PT
|
"I would disclose more of the call, however some ST'ers can't keep stuff here on the forum. "
Try keeping YOUR political BS out of the ST forum and you would not have this issue Fatty.
As far as "political people" go you have got to be the biggest wuss on the face of the planet. Remember fatty, you play in the big leagues. But it seems you like den-mother-league rules.
|
|
Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
|
|
|
Apr 25, 2007 - 01:11pm PT
|
saw mccain on the daily show-
came across as entirely out of touch w/ the valid sentiments and concerns of americans wrt the war in iraq, and i have to say that he seemed entirely unprepared to face the type of questions he should have expected to get in that venue.
i'd say he's been spending all his time talking to people that agree w/ him, and it shows.
most memorable lines:
mccain: (some unpopular resopnse about the war or soldiers)
studio audience (audible): loud 'boos'
stewart: what can i say, the tickets are free
mccain (turns is back to the crowd): well i know whose side they are on
stewart: well yes, they're on america's side
crowd: loud cheers and applause
EDIT- watch it for yourself
http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/1gmarchive/2007/04/stewart_vs_mcca.html
|
|
UncleDoug
Social climber
N. lake Tahoe
|
|
|
Apr 25, 2007 - 01:33pm PT
|
"I had no problem with the call to the paper or AIPAC, but I can't discuss internal campaign discussions knowing that one of you will be calling CNN within seconds.
"
Welcome to the big leagues, Fatty!
By the way, Whitey says f*#k-off!
|
|
HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
|
|
|
Apr 25, 2007 - 01:37pm PT
|
Haven't fired up the Tivo yet to watch Stewart. I have seen every other McCain appearance on the show and he always comes off looking like the "sane" Republican who has to hold his toungue within the party to keep things moving. If he came off THAT poorly on TDS then he is in for a raging ass-whooping unless he can retool his message and his image.
Or unless he comes up with a racist push-poll. Those seem to work pretty well too.
All in all in I think he is more or less "right" about the strategy in the war in Iraq if you are attached to "winning" in a traditional sense...that is...beating the country into submission. The only way to do it is with hundreds of thousands of more troops. The problem is that the American public doesn't have the stomach for it. Bush crapped all over the place and people are tired of holding their noses.
McCain should have run in 2004 on the Independant ticket. Prolly would have won.
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
|
Apr 25, 2007 - 01:49pm PT
|
I really don't trust a politician or public figure or anybody for that matter when they use phrases like, "It's what the American people want", or, "The American people have spoken loudly". Where does that come from? How the hell can they feel the 'pulse' of 250 million people and then speak for them? Oh, the polls, riiiight. I like to see some of the questions..."Do you feel like our troops should leave Iraq?" Hell, I'd say yes to that, but the problem is they specify under what conditions and at what expense. And they're going to sample 800 or 1000 people from who knows what demographic or list and come to a conclusion for the whole country? Bah!
|
|
Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
|
|
|
Apr 25, 2007 - 02:01pm PT
|
i believe that's a reference to the 2006 elections, when the democrats took over BOTH houses of congress from the republicans who'd previously been in power, and where (yes) the polls indicated that dissatisfaction w/ the events in iraq and the failed policy there had been a major (if not THE major) issue for a majority of voters.
when bush barely won the 2004 election (shennanigans in ohio and elsewhere notwithstanding), he repeatedly called that his "accountability moment". you can't have it both ways pal...
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Apr 25, 2007 - 02:05pm PT
|
If you listen to the people it "GTF out of Iraq"
Don't trust the polls, listen to the scholars who know the ins and outs of the situation. "it can't be 'won' at this point. No matter how long we stay there, we're invaders and they don't want us there"
Hell, have an anonymous vote of the troops. Stay (for years and years) and win (or die), or go home to your families. Heck, maybe we can go back into Vietnam and finally 'win' that one.
The Israelis and Palestinians are still at odds. Maybe we should occupy them too so they can moderate and have democracy (with both Palestinians and Israelis voting)
Bush can't be trusted to make the call since if he does the right thing and bail on the hopeless situation, he'll go down in history as a failure. He'll never do that
Peace
Karl
PS "Best" case scenario:
1. Iraq is partitioned into three countries and many die or become homeless in the transition a la Pakistan and India in the late 40s.
or
2. They get a dictator that uses the least harsh tatics possible (very hard probably in the beginnning) to get everyone under control and then one group (Sunnis or Shiites influenced by Iran) lords somewhat over the others. In other words, back to the beginning before we invaded.
Those are the rosy scenarios
Wanna see how troublesome this mess is? See this
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/03/24/49/
|
|
Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
|
|
|
Apr 25, 2007 - 02:21pm PT
|
re: worst ever
remember when he said he'd have a "humble foregin policy", and he'd "be a uniter, not a divider"?
has to go down as one of the funniest hind-sight views of all time.
re, fatty's post above-
again, you are an idiot!
how do you do it day in and day out?
yes, there will be lots and lots of death, no matter what we do. that is why karl says we are screwed! you accuse karl of racism because he suggest something that could include the death of lots of people, and then you turn around and advocate new and expanded wars that would cretainly mean many many more deaths?
you don't CARE if there are deaths, hell you WANT there to be deaths! you are all about deaths, all about war and all the death that goes with it! it's all you ever post about.
re-edit:
gotta just love fatty's posts, hey, maybe he's onto something here? we could reform the entire middle east! let's invade saudi arabia, and establish a democracy there, complete w/ free markets and whatnot. it will surely become a 'beacon of freedom in the region'(TM), and inspire other countries populations, putting pressure upon their leaders and governments to reform...
|
|
Forest
Trad climber
Tucson, AZ
|
|
|
Apr 25, 2007 - 02:31pm PT
|
Fatty, get real. When has anyone ever "distributed the stocks bonds and oil wealth?" Uh.. oh yeah,. never!
In that pie-in-the-sky scenario you describe, a small number of already very rich people/companies would get everything. If you think otherwise, you really need to get out and see the world. Maybe read a history book or something.
|
|
Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
|
|
|
Apr 25, 2007 - 02:52pm PT
|
yeah, what about the common man!
here here!
neocons co-opting communist talking points, you heard it here first!
wow, i am getting all nostalgic over here, remember when we were invading iraq to give freedom to the iraqi people?
(that was right after all those WMDs turned out to be somewhere other than where 'we [knew] exactly where there [were]', and right before we were 'fighting the terrorists there so we don't have to fight them here')
|
|
HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
|
|
|
Apr 25, 2007 - 02:55pm PT
|
"Forest,
Deep down I dream of whirled peas and justice. The rate of poverty in Saudi was skyrocketing when oil was at $25 a barrel, yet the royals were out spending. How about a little justice for the Saudi populace.
Jody's evil twin. "
Class warfare!!! What have you got against wealthy people, Fatty? Haven't those people earned the right to spend their money? Isn't that what capitalism is all about? Maybe if the Saudi people pulled themselves up by their bootstraps....
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Apr 25, 2007 - 03:45pm PT
|
Fatty wrote:
"Karl,
What you're calling for is the death of tens of thousands, do the lives of brown skinned individuals mean less to you? I know you too well (net wise) to use the R word. "
What a joke, i'm not calling for anything. I'm just telling what the consequences of the present situation are no matter what we do.
But not as funny as you calling for relieving those poor Saudis of their king, who Bush holds hands with and kisses on the lips!
Surely you believe that oil belongs to the oil companies of the world. It's their business after all. It's called privatization by the neocons.
Peace
karl
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!