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climbingcook
Trad climber
sf
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Therein lies the rub: How can a route become a "trad route later"?
The same way the car your parents had when you were born became an antique.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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as wolves are to rocky,
sport climbing is to healyje....
healyje, where have you climbed at in the last 12 months? the chosspile in gorge?
what really is your issue in 25 words or less?
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Guck
Trad climber
Santa Barbara, CA
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DMT, Trad climbing is TRADITIONAL climbing. That means climbing with the style and ethics of Chouinard, Frost, and their peers. The huge controversy about Harding and his climbs came about his profusion of bolts. All the "traditional" climbers of the time had one thing in common; They respected and loved the rocks on which they climbed. They made sure that no trace was left after them. That is not the case for the younger climbers who see the rock as an extension of gymnastics. Most of them do not have any clue about the dangers of a mountain. They want to transpose their usual environment (the climbing gym) to the outside. What is lost in the process is the communion with the rock, the spirituality and respect that is due for the mountain. Many have lost their life for that, and many more will. It is sheer arrogance that man can dominate the rock. As to the Winebagos, they leave with the tourists, the bolts stay afyter the climbers are gone.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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DMT, Trad climbing is TRADITIONAL climbing. That means climbing with the style and ethics of Chouinard, Frost, and their peers.
Hmm. Those guys were crazy new agers compared to the real traditionalists like John Muir, Norman Clyde and the like.
Isn't it kind of a silly semantic game to keep moving the calander back in an effort to define the true tradition?
Free climbing is the tradition as I see it. That and aid. Both preferably clean. If I never hear or read the term "trad" again I will be very pleased.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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I am surpised to see support for the term "trad" from the elders of the tribe; it does not really hold up to any kind of objective scrutiny. Though climbing "ethics" don't either.
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Guck
Trad climber
Santa Barbara, CA
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Kris,
I agree with you that a semantic debate is useless. My main point is that the spirit of climbing has changed. It is now more of a sport than a way of life. Something has been lost in the process.
Phillip.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Guck, that is such an old guy perspective. The true spirit of climbing remains the same. There is more ambient noise now, but the core of the "sport" marches on.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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My main point is that the spirit of climbing has changed. It is now more of a sport than a way of life. Something has been lost in the process.
oh, like jobs?
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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All the "traditional" climbers of the time had one thing in common; They respected and loved the rocks on which they climbed
Ah, if only that were so . . .
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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So true, Anders. This controversy goes back at least 55 years in the Valley.
John
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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...what really is your issue in 25 words or less?
I'm guessing you haven't been following along as I summed it up more succinctly than that two pages ago.
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Leave the bolting to the women;...it's really not a manly thing to do at the crags anyways......Men should drink, smoke, and climb at the crags;...not bolt.......(and girls;...don't forget to pack a lunch for us boys too;.....us men cannot live on beer and cigarettes alone.......)..
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Just another egomaniac trying to make a name for himself, impress women, get rich and famous, and leave his mark on the world of climbing;......courage in the rucksac..........(makes me want to puke.....)...besides;.....how can we lower off and top rope when the route goes sideways!.....(didn't think of that,...did you......)..AND....take in the damn slack;...will ya.....watch me....
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Bolting on the lead is for gays and grays;......just look at those short shorts;........leave the bolting to the experts, old fella;......go back to Bongo Johnnies in Palm Springs where you belong....(1/4" bolts too;.....please......get a grip, pillow-biter....)...loose the tube socks too, gramps.....
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Send in the rock police;....another dinosaur bolting on the lead, puttin' the bolts in the wrong place, AND with dangerous run-out sections that put future climber's lives in peril...........(probably on drugs too;......).....we need to band together to stop this dangerous practice.........We need to make the crags safe for future generations...
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Rock is ugly until it has bolts and chalk on it;......and the chalk and bolts makes it way easier to know which way to go.......cool.....
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Is standing on a pack to place a bolt considered aid.....and shouldn't that be noted in the guidebook, so we know just how much the FA party CHEATED when putting the bolts in ground up..........(Does this look like fun to you..........)....the climbing community needs to know these infractions.....If you are gonna stand on a pack;....it's aid;...might as well rap bolt the damn thing...I think it sets a bad example;....soon more and more routes will go up with other climbers standing on THEIR packs;......I believe we may have opened pandora's box here......
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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ANOTHER lead bolter.......must be a VERY old picture;...I didn't think ANYONE did that anymore........maybe he should stick to making 5.10 shoes instead of putting the bolts in the wrong places, and making PG and R rated climbs;......if you are gonna bolt, at least make it safe for climbers who may do most of their climbing in the gym;......be considerate of others, please....
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Friends don't let friends lead bolt;.....it's a dirty and dangerous practice.....just say NO to lead bolting.......(thanks for listening....)
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