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elcap-pics
Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
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Aug 30, 2010 - 01:39pm PT
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I have come out against LEGALIZING base jumping in the park. I of course thought about the permit system... knowing what I know about base jumpers they will jump any time they damn well please. You know it is true. If they allowed jumping one weekend a year do you honestly think that these people would abide by that!! What a joke! Why wait for one or two days a year, get a jump lottery ticket and then wait in line to jump when you can do it for free any time you want? Not going to happen.
So I think it should be kept illegal... that way the people who do it are going to figure a way out to do it without being seen or getting caught, as it has been done for years. Yes yes from time to time someone will screw up and get caught... that is tough luck for them but the vast majority of jumpers I am friends with to it on a regular basis and don't get caught. I would venture a GUESS that less than one jump in 2500 gets caught... not bad odds.
The trick is to be so experienced and organized that you dont get caught. That way the hacks and shouldn't be there types either don't try it or get caught. With legalization all kinds of regulations and problems will arise!
KEEP BASE JUMPING ALIVE AND WELL .... DON'T LEGALIZE IT!
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 30, 2010 - 01:42pm PT
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uh,... el cap pics
what would happen if somebody posted that but substituted the term climbing for base jumping?
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Aug 30, 2010 - 01:43pm PT
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Its all relative. The higher the take off point the longer the fun lasts.
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marv
Mountain climber
Bay Area
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Aug 30, 2010 - 02:03pm PT
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I like the keep-it-illegal argument mentioned above. Keeps enough of the riffraff away but doesn't deter the committed/having-their-shit together (who apparently don't get caught except improbably).
Dylan: "To live outside the law you must be honest." Word.
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elcap-pics
Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
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Aug 30, 2010 - 02:06pm PT
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Climbing, at this time, doesn't have the inherent problems that base jumping is associated with. Climbers don't generally have to be rescued from the top of tall trees, climbers don't generally land in front of cars on the road. Climbers don't generally land on top of your car. Climbers don't generally land in the river. Climbers don't break their legs at the end of a climb as jumpers sometimes, but rarely, do. Climbers don't generally dominate the vistas people who have come to see so called "nature" will be seeing.
As far as danger goes... although base jumping is PROBABLY more dangerous I don't think danger is a valid reason to ban it as people get killed all the time doing less dangerous things. I am mostly speaking of jumping ElCap with all its inherent problems.
I would be in favor of allowing jumping off the Dome as there is pretty much no chance of landing in car travelled roads or in areas that are full of tourons. Rivers and trees are still a problem however, but I feel certain the park service would not want to have to fetch all the screw ups from Dome jumps as the terrain is very difficult and the jump does not have a huge meadow to land in... at least it seems manageable while jumping ElCap seems to be almost unmanageable.
Certainly there is no easy solution to this matter. If there was it would have been resolved a long time ago... well ...I suppose it has been resolved... it is illegal. That is the easiest thing for the park service to do as it eliminates all the rescue problems entirely! The road to legalization will be a hard one as it will require an already stressed NPS to assume even more responsibility and cost.
I still think that far more base jumpers will get to jump ElCap, though illegally, than if some system, which probably will bring its share of complaints, is instigated.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Aug 30, 2010 - 02:06pm PT
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Bridge Day seems to work pretty good. But as I posted earlier, it ain't happening in a National Park. They don't need the tourist dollars.
My friend had a great quote: "The kind of people who want to be cops, should not be cops!" But of course it's been mentioned here numerous times, most rangers are cool and helpful. It's the power trippers who shouldn't be in that line of work who cause problems. The people drawn to law enforcement because they want to control people, not help people. And unfortuneatly there's also a culture of protecting your fellow officer even when THEY break the law.
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marv
Mountain climber
Bay Area
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Aug 30, 2010 - 02:10pm PT
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"You know the score. If you're not a cop, you're little people."
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elcap-pics
Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
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Aug 30, 2010 - 02:11pm PT
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Bridge Day is ONE DAY... do you really think that one day is all that is needed to stop all other jumping in Yosemite for the rest of the year? Nope... don't think so Bro!
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Aug 30, 2010 - 02:20pm PT
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All a legal jump day(s) would do is to allow those who don't want to break the law a chance to do it legally. It probably wouldn't make a dent in illegal jumping.
I've done enough legal and illegal stuff to know that I'd rather have the plenty of time and low stress situation that comes with doing it legally than to have to run and hide AND plan my jump safely.
But like I said it's not happening anyway. Too much hassle, no benefit for those in charge.
The biggest thing the park service looks at is the impact on other visitors. Millions of tourists don't want to see colorful chutes in their vacation pics. They don't want to hear the 'sonic booms' of slider down openings.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Aug 30, 2010 - 02:40pm PT
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Millions of tourists don't want to see colorful chutes in their vacation pics. They don't want to hear the 'sonic booms' of slider down openings.
Not certain that I agree with that sentiment. My parents got a kick out of seeing the hanggliders. But then at 80 years old my mom wanted to try it. She did her first white water trip at 78.
We have been coming to the park since I was 4 years old. We have floated the river, canoed the lakes, camped, swam, hiked and just generally enjoyed the park for years. The things that bothered us the most were rude people, litter, and noise. Sometimes the crowds bothered us, but we knew how to escape them, just hike a mile. ( at least on most trails. The falls trails are a whole nother ballgame )
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Aug 30, 2010 - 02:58pm PT
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Speaking of taser incidents, there was a doosy in the midwest about a year ago. The cops got a report of a potential suicide and responded. They found a man in his front yard had doused himself with gasoline and was threating to set himself on fire.
So, they tased him.
Guess what happened...
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Aug 30, 2010 - 03:04pm PT
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Sorry Peeping Tom, but this is beyond ridiculous:
"Climbers don't generally have to be rescued from the top of tall trees, climbers don't generally land in front of cars on the road. Climbers don't generally land on top of your car. Climbers don't generally land in the river. Climbers don't break their legs at the end of a climb as jumpers sometimes, but rarely, do. Climbers don't generally dominate the vistas people who have come to see so called "nature" will be seeing.:
And NEITHER DO BASE JUMPERS, you disingenuous clown. Out of the probably 5,000 jumps done in the last decade in the valley, how many have included ANY of the above BS? Talk about your over generalization and simplistic horsesh#t...geez.
Dominate the vistas? A base jumper is visible for what...25 seconds from launch to chute gathered and gone? Whereas there are bright ass red and yellow portaledges on El Cap for weeks at a time. Get a clue.
Oh, but maybe you mean touristy lookout vistas? Funny, I've NEVER seen a tourist within miles of the Mescalito launch.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Aug 30, 2010 - 03:06pm PT
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Base jumpers scared the crap out of me on El Cap (I used a tube), but nobody promised me a rose garden.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 30, 2010 - 03:21pm PT
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Holy crap rif, talk about suicide by cop.
Maybe the cop should say he reached for the wrong holster,..
I wonder what our paternalistic culture that seeks to protect people from themselves will come up with if jumping becomes more popular, giant nets strung along just below the rim?
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Aug 30, 2010 - 03:27pm PT
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Yeah, you gotta wonder what the cop was thinking.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Aug 30, 2010 - 03:31pm PT
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thinking?
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Aug 30, 2010 - 03:43pm PT
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No Shít!
Wow...
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elcap-pics
Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
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Aug 30, 2010 - 03:50pm PT
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Well Elcapinyoazz... you are right in that there have been few incidents of people in trees or in front of cars in yosemite... could that be because it is illegal and only a select few jumpers with a lot of experience go off Elcap? Imagaine for a moment, that jumping becomes legal... seems to me there will be many more jumpers going off than before and certainly the ranks of the experienced will be thinned by those of less experience. Well... my base jumping friends will do just fine for the most part, but the new multitudes may not fare so well. Get the idea.... many less experienced jumpers will, most likely, lead to landings in bad places. I saw one of the most experienced jumpers in the world land in the river one day at noon right in front of me... so is it not possible that the less experienced will not do so well and will need someone to fetch them up?
We differ on this topic, obviously, but your rudeness to me is uncalled for.. I have not insulted you in any way, because of your opinion, and I don't even know who you are as you don't identify yourself.... all I have done is post my opinion in a reasoned and rational manner... your name calling diminishes you man.... not me.
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TKingsbury
Trad climber
MT
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Aug 30, 2010 - 03:57pm PT
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