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MeatBomb
Gym climber
Boise, I dee Hoe
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Jun 15, 2010 - 05:34pm PT
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BlowJox: long on wind, short on knowledge
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Bschmitz
Ice climber
mountain view
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Jun 15, 2010 - 06:50pm PT
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ST is not a comic book?
Nope youa re quite right.....is a junk show! Bring the lights, the clowns, and then hairy men carrying midgets.
HA. you gentelman and ladies rule
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jun 15, 2010 - 07:22pm PT
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They sure survey funny in Idaho.
Deed calls take precedence over monuments. Monuments are reference points to property corners, they are not the real corners.
Again, it's important to establish the true boundary. Not just what some guy says it is.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jun 15, 2010 - 08:35pm PT
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The Senior County Surveyor was on property when the latest was completed in order to officially verify it with the Survey of Record for the transfer of title.
The county surveyor established the boundaries of this property? Is that what you're saying?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 15, 2010 - 08:50pm PT
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monuments are the approximations of points the deeds base the calls off of or the approximations of the mathematical points called out, on the ground. They are usually accurate to within about a sub-inch or well under a tenth of a foot.. Except, of course, when they're moved by the landowner, natural forces, or mischief makers. Which sometimes happens with private monuments. Government survey benchmarks are usually cemented into rock, and it's often a criminal offence to move them.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jun 15, 2010 - 10:58pm PT
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Chief,
Would you mind emailing me those maps you got from Inyo County? The falls is a topographic feature, not a real property feature. If this is shown on one of those maps, I'd be interested in seeing that.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jun 16, 2010 - 09:14am PT
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While I always included them, and would be surprised to find them ignored, being as it's Cali, ANYTHING is possible. But it won't make any difference, except in how a non-professional manages to find his way around the boundary. And any modern survey (since 1950(? really way before)) is going to show topo data. You can't do a survey without figuring in the location differences made by elevation.
You know nothing about surveying.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jun 16, 2010 - 10:59am PT
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In other words, you have no maps. Thanks for clarifying.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jun 16, 2010 - 01:20pm PT
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TKingsbury did some excellent work and posted the GIS parcel information. It is informative, but has no legal impact.
The respected Mr. Ivey claims ownership of the Lower Falls area. It is hardly uncommon for property owners to misconstrue their holdings. Boundary disputes keep land surveyors well fed.
The Chief has claimed to be in possession of a copy of the recorded map that created Mr. Ivey's parcel. I would be very surprised if that map shows topography, such as the falls. If it is a very old parcel and was created prior to the Subdivision Map act, it could very well show that. Chief, can you at least reveal the recording information?
I have no doubt that Mr. Ivey has the best of intentions and means no misrepresentation of fact. However the recorded map and its underlying deed needs to be related to what's on the ground.
This is something that needs to be clarified, that's all I'm saying.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jun 16, 2010 - 07:18pm PT
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Rokjox, I should have written you nothing of surveying in California. My bad.
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jstan
climber
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Jun 16, 2010 - 07:24pm PT
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That which is good for the goose is also good for the gander. We have many expressions of
emotion by climbers on this and other threads. Is it too much to expect the same of people who pay
taxes on land that other people use without asking permission? Really?
Guide book writers have no business whatsoever describing or even mentioning lands unless they
have written permission from the owners or managers. Permission granted after the possible
consequences for granting this permission have been described.
Thirty years ago I went even further than this. Guidebook writers have no business describing lands
at all unless they have reached a firm agreement with the owner as to the guidebook incomes that
will become the property of the owner in support of their attempts to maintain those lands.
When the rules of simple equity and fairness are breached you will get a lot of heat.
What is hard to understand here?
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 16, 2010 - 08:53pm PT
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In firefox all you have to do is hit Ctrl + to zoom.
No need download anything ....
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jun 16, 2010 - 09:45pm PT
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And that has no legal standing. Chief, do you have any experience with GIS and how GIS data is collected and to what accuracy?
Share the guide book profits??? LOL!
Yeah, Vernon would have a good laugh at that.
jstan is right, though. Private property should be respected, but so should public property.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Jun 16, 2010 - 11:43pm PT
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"jstan is right, though. Private property should be respected, but so should public property."
Hmmm.... Not sure why there should be any distinction between private and public.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jun 17, 2010 - 10:35am PT
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Thanks, Chief. That will go a long way in clearing this up.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Good morning, Chief. Did you ever locate that map that was emailed to you?
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Kev-
As a property owner myself, I can understand the conflict. A major problem with posting property is THE SIGNS GET TAKEN DOWN/STOLEN!
One way to protect yourself is to double check an ownership map at the county assessor's office, and get yourself a small hand-held GPS unit. The last thing you want to do is piss off a legitimate property owner. He can have you arrested for (1) simple trespass, or (2) criminal trespass if you are told once that the land is private property and you sneak back in.
I have had similar problems with trespassers before, and I simply ask them if they are aware that they are on private land. Many are simply lost and confused as to their location and leave under good terms. Most of this occurs during hunting season on my ranch, and I offer them the option of paying an access fee if they wish to have free run of the place for their hunt.
I've only had ONE nasty incident in 15 years where the trespasser challenged my property ownership. I now have a county ownership map and a GPS available.
As an example, the South Platte area in Colorado now has many of the climbs listed in "The Brown Book of Lies" off limits to climbers as they are on private land: Sphinx Rock/ Sphinx Crack, Squat Rock, and Bucksnort Slabs.
You cannot count on climbing guidebooks to be completely accurate w/r land ownership.
Rodger
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 8, 2010 - 03:18pm PT
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The recap :) to get all you Tacoites up to speed on the latest news of the DramaTaco!
Until 1-2 years ago this was BLM property.
The NEW day use BLM trailhead complete with toilet, picnic tables, and grills, has a map with NO implications, markings, or mentions of any private property at the trailhead!
Property line changed within the last 6-24 months.
No signs were put in. Nothing was updated
Guide books were correct until resurvey/property line change (hell the BLM guys gave me conflicting info when I spoke to them after the issue.)
Dude (the caretaker - prolly a relative of SprayJocks) was an as#@&%e to us.
We bitched about it here.
Sheriff was contacted and claimed that there had been issues in the past with the caretakers.
Signs are being put up hopefully with a fence.
I'm not sure why this thread is still going other than SprayJocks feels insecure about his life. SprayJocks, go look for a job and get off the taco. You spend so much time here it's no surprise you can't find work. Stop making excuses and go get a job - god knows there are plenty of us around here that really want to see you not have so much time on you hands (your wife probably shares our desires). Also I'm not sure why you insist on making comments about why I can't win here. I already have moved on w.r.t (with respect to) FF - I'm happy there has been some resolution to this. You (who've never climbed there) can't seem to move on about this.
Jstan, you can't seriously expect one to research an area that is in multiple guide books including BOTH a 20 yr old book and a 1 yr old book before going there - really?
kev
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MeatBomb
Gym climber
Boise, I dee Hoe
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BlowJox: Here are a few shots of a job I was on.
Another outright lie. Last time you had a job there was no technology available to produce color pictures. Do you ever tire of reading your own bullsh#t?
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 8, 2010 - 03:54pm PT
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And you still don't have a job....
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