Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
|
|
|
Apr 13, 2019 - 02:28pm PT
|
|
|
monolith
climber
state of being
|
|
|
Apr 13, 2019 - 03:08pm PT
|
|
|
BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
|
|
|
Apr 14, 2019 - 10:28am PT
|
https://www.yahoo.com/news/bering-sea-changes-startle-scientists-worry-residents-160703816.htmlhttp://"]https://www.yahoo.com/news/bering-sea-changes-startle-scientists-worry-residents-160703816.htmlhttp://
Stories like the one above flit past us like gnats. We ignore them.
I admire Malemute's sincerity. Our changing climate is far more serious than the typical person understands, and the cost will be much worse than what they are fed as results of this planetary experiment. Rising sea level will be the least of our problems.
The fossil fuel lobby, along with a bunch of right wing idiots who have bought into their less than stellar record of high end peer review, cloud the issue in a manner almost exactly like the one that the tobacco lobby used before. And it worked for decades.
Our carbon and methane emissions are simple and measurable data points. So is the warming that we see in the Arctic, which is much higher than lower latitudes. Unfortunately, we as a species have never been able to take the long view. We cannot restrict our actions based on a punishment that most of us will not live to see.
We will see a lot, though. Even when we reach 2 degrees of warming, the planet will see profound changes.
This isn't just a problem of displaced population, nor population, although both are parts of the effect. It is our behavior that is most out of sync with reality.
We can act. The majority of the world even agrees that we should act. Unfortunately, it is too late to prevent disaster. At this point it is mitigation.
We need to stop screwing like rabbits, and reduce our carbon emissions by a great deal. Even with the Paris agreement, we won't halt our exponential increase.
That is another weakness of humans. The inability to understand an exponential function or equation. You can't keep growing forever. An experiment in a petri dish can illustrate that within a week or less.
Those who actively campaign to obscure the observations and numerical modeling are truly evil human beings. Not that evil human beings have ever been in short supply.
I would buy land in Saskatchewan. In the mean time, I use less fuel. I drive an old civic, and fill up every few months at best. The real pain will come with air travel. It is by far the most carbon expensive way to move around.
I fathered one child. We should pass a law allowing every person to parent 2/3 of a child. You could trade your right if you didn't want to parent children. Having a dozen, like Mormons and Catholics, will become downright abominations. As for consumption, the only thing that can slow it down is cost, and unfortunately, our hydrocarbon accumulations are sufficient to reach 4 degrees of warming before they begin to seriously run out, forcing choices of cleaner fuels.
We could make this change tomorrow. All we need is leadership, and punishment for scientific lies. Lies like the tobacco companies used.
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
|
Apr 14, 2019 - 10:57am PT
|
That is another weakness of humans. The inability to understand an exponential function or equation. You can't keep growing forever. An experiment in a petri dish can illustrate that within a week or less.
I don't see it at a "weakness," it is a well established biological imperative, metabolism leads to reproduction leads to increased metabolism which, in tern leads to increased reproduction.
There are certainly human perspectives on this, but it the consequences are predictable by "simple" ecology, however we'd like to dress them up in societal, religious, philosophical or economical clothing.
In some ways we are a hopeful species, and that is due in large part to our belief that we'll find a way to overcome the difficulties, whatever they will be.
Access to energy is necessary for all metabolism, and there are a large number ways that access has evolved, the "fitness landscape" is a harsh sieve for life and looking around we observe that life that has evolved over 4.1 billion years on its success at getting that energy, we are no different.
Interestingly to my mind is the success we've had in scavenging the energy from organisms that have spanned the history of life on Earth, at least for the past few hundred million years. And the possibility that we could scavenge all of it in a couple of hundred years.
The twist in this particular story being that we could not survive the consequences of burning all of that fuel if we exhaust the combustion products into the atmosphere.
Figuring out ways to avoid exhausting the products will greatly increase the cost of that energy source. Replacing that source of energy requires the expenditure of energy, it is not clear just what the margins are and it is the margins that will determine whether or not humans will succeed.
The margins are slim for all life, photosynthesis has a 3-6% efficiency for the conversion of light to chemical energy available to the organism for all of the life functions.
Can humans increase this efficiency? and in a manner that the entire process return a net positive energy balance.
It's not clear, but of course we are hopeful.
|
|
wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
|
|
|
Apr 15, 2019 - 06:40pm PT
|
Great post Ed,we are hopeful.
It reminds me of a post years ago you directed at me about the percentage of renewables being used at the time.
You did not see that as hopeful,if memory suits me well.
Just seeing the numbers, I am curious to what those numbers read today,or,now.
Hopeful,Indeed.
|
|
August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
|
|
|
Apr 23, 2019 - 01:11pm PT
|
^^^^
Da Nile isn't just a river in Egypt.
Not much of a silver lining, but I do hope future grand kids can track down all the vicious climate denial and trolling their grand parents did.
|
|
Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
|
|
|
Apr 24, 2019 - 08:50pm PT
|
Well, we’ve lost Malemute now too. Bummer. He posted on another thread earlier today, asking for RJ to delete all of his posts and his account. This thread shows 3,060 posts on the listing of forum topics, but there are now 2,272 posts on the thread, plus this one. So Malemute posted to this thread 788 times. Thanks for all of the info, Malemute; I learned a lot.
|
|
jogill
climber
Colorado
|
|
Because the world will end twelve years from now. Someone said this recently, I believe.
;>(
|
|
wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
|
|
|
May 15, 2019 - 06:14pm PT
|
Hey ,lookie there ,NASA has come out with a new updated graph. Same as the old graph.
|
|
Splater
climber
Grey Matter
|
|
|
May 21, 2019 - 12:39pm PT
|
"We find that a global total Sea Level Rise exceeding 2 m by 2100 lies within the 90% uncertainty bounds for a high emission scenario. This is more than twice the upper value put forward by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change in the Fifth Assessment Report."
https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2019/05/14/1817205116
and of course sea level rise doesn't suddenly stop in 2100. The effect by 2300 is roughly 4 times the 2100 level.
|
|
EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
|
|
|
May 31, 2019 - 09:12am PT
|
I'm gonna miss all this silly hysteria.
|
|
Splater
climber
Grey Matter
|
|
|
May 31, 2019 - 10:14am PT
|
"I'm gonna miss all this silly hysteria."
Yes, you wouldn't be regularly trolling on this thread if you didn't have an interest. Whereas most people have learned something here about the massive scientific findings over recent decades, there are always some who become even more determined to sanctify their own selfish wants over the needs of the many.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!