Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2009 - 04:03am PT
|
news flash, GWB II is still out of international prison and not convicted of genocide, or immoral crimes against humanity
get over this lame sh!t thread already.
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2009 - 11:48am PT
|
LEB writes
"The answer to your question lies in the fact that people's actions often reveal their feelings about a subject. True you can't definitively "know" everything but you can get a pretty good idea of what are someone's values by how they live and what they say and do. "
But Lois, he's actually acting, on military matters, pretty much like Bush, so what's actually tipping you off that he sucks?
The only sorta left wing thing he has done is try to reform health care, which you agree needs work.
You are just being a robot!
Peace
karl
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2009 - 11:59am PT
|
"We on the right feel much the same way about Obama as you guys on the left did about Bush"
Hardly, sis.
We are unhappy with a madman who has made the world worse, sold our children (you don't have any so shut the f*#k up) into debt to make money and show the world that his dick is bigger than his dad's
You're mad that somebody else has control of the sandbox you like to pee in.
Don't even try, to compare the two!
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2009 - 12:49pm PT
|
George Bush could have come out and said that he was acting on behalf of himself and his industrial handlers, but he would never do any such thing, however, because deep down inside he does not think much of the average American citizen, the bill of rights or anything remotely related to these folks i.e. we the people. He simply knows better than to reveal as much.
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2009 - 03:02pm PT
|
You're funny when you"re scared or called to account.
You're comparing a man admitidly darker than you would like, who has held the reigns for less than a year, to a mass murderer of historic levels who has drained the world's ecconomy for our grandkids lifetime, all in an attempt to curry his dad's favor.
You insist that they are polar extremes, and can't accept how far to the right our whole system is skewed. Get back back to me when you've done just a tiny bit of research.
I know, none of this matters to you, you've got 30 yrs left, tops. So future legacy, the rest, just doesn't matter. You might check into the concept that there is a world we are leaving to others, and it is our job to have them not have to just pay for our greed/failures, and be able to progress the deal, like we had the opportunity to do.
|
|
Norton
Social climber
the Middle Class
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2009 - 03:02pm PT
|
Deficit reduction in action:
Big banks paying back TARP fund loans as fast as they can!
JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs have already paid back their billions.
This Wednesday, Bank of America announced that they will be paying back
their 45 billion dollar "bailout" in a couple of weeks.
All of these banks and investment houses are including the 15% taxpayer
dividend President Obama ordered when he lent the money.
And the stock market continues is record run, now up some 50% since
Obama's Economic Stimulus Bill was passed.
The bill, as you all well so very well from reading it, consisted of
one part tax cuts for everyone making less than 200K, one part direct
aid to the bankrupt States, and one part national infrastructure rebuilding.
Don't we just hate it when facts get in the way of partisan bickering?
"Can't we all just get along"?
Rodney King
|
|
pc
climber
East of Seattle
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2009 - 03:21pm PT
|
Nice one Norton. But be careful, you'll confuse the wingnuts out there.
Must...Hate...Obama....No...Matter...WTF (what the facts...)
BTW Interesting side note. My wife and I have been collecting Nobel Schnapps glasses the past few years. They're really quite beautiful. Here's a pic of one of my favorites. (They're all about the theme of the devil in drink;)
|
|
GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2009 - 03:40pm PT
|
Never understood why people have been critizing Obama for this - Norwegians, sure, but its not like Obama put 'em up to it.
I liked his speech, a bit long, but very appropriate. An honest allegory to WWII. Here's a right winger giving Obama his props for a job well done.
|
|
dogtown
Trad climber
JackAssVille, Wyoming
|
|
|
Dec 12, 2009 - 02:47am PT
|
Jay and LEB;
You both need to smoke of the peace pipe.
It will all work out in the end! It will, We are Americans.
Americans. We Get the job done. We always have. And we always will.
No matter the cost, and despite the leaders of this country. The people, The people of this Great Nation will prevail. No doubt.
We always have and will.
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
|
Dec 12, 2009 - 03:02am PT
|
"We see and hear and perceive that which we want to do so."
LEB repeatedly refuses to actually state anything that makes the President so bad. She does, however, repeatedly refer to knowing it when she sees it.
I wonder what she SEES about the President to which she objects? This DARK side of his, to which she repeatedly refers?
On the subject of his speech, it is somewhat difficult to find a CREDIBLE conservative, that was not impressed by it.
Gingrich, Brooks.......
|
|
HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
|
|
|
Dec 12, 2009 - 09:07am PT
|
Just dropping by for the tears. Thanks to LEB for coming out of retirement to help fill the tub. So delicious.
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
|
Dec 12, 2009 - 04:54pm PT
|
Again, LEB states that the President is fumbling it, but cites absolutely no examples of this. I guess we need to keep pointing this out.
Here is what REAL conservatives are saying about Obama, not those who conveniently conservative:
The Analytic Mode
By DAVID BROOKS
Published: December 3, 2009
Many Democrats are nostalgic for Barack Obama’s 2008 presidential campaign — for the passion, the clarity, the bliss-to-be-alive fervor. They argue that these things are missing in a cautious and emotionless White House.
But, of course, the Obama campaign, like all presidential campaigns, was built on a series of fictions. The first fiction was that government is a contest between truth and error. In reality, government is usually a contest between competing, unequal truths.
The second fiction was that to support a policy is to make it happen. In fact, in government power is exercised through other people. It is only by coaxing, prodding and compromise that presidents actually get anything done.
The third fiction was that we can begin the world anew. In fact, all problems and policies have already been worked by a thousand hands and the clay is mostly dry. Presidents are compelled to work with the material they have before them.
The fourth fiction was that leaders know the path ahead. In fact, they have general goals, but the way ahead is pathless and everything is shrouded by uncertainty.
All presidents have to adjust to these realities when they move to the White House. The only surprise with President Obama is how enthusiastically he has made the transition. He’s political, like any president, but he seems to vastly prefer the grays of governing to the simplicities of the campaign.
The election revolved around passionate rallies. The Obama White House revolves around a culture of debate. He leads long, analytic discussions, which bring competing arguments to the fore. He sometimes seems to preside over the arguments like a judge settling a lawsuit.
His policies are often a balance as he tries to accommodate different points of view. He doesn’t generally issue edicts. In matters foreign and domestic, he seems to spend a lot of time coaxing people along. His governing style, in short, is biased toward complexity.
This style has never been more evident than in his decision to expand the war in Afghanistan. America traditionally fights its wars in a spirit of moral fervor. Most war presidents cast themselves as heroes on a white charger, believing that no one heeds an uncertain trumpet.
Obama, on the other hand, cloaked himself in what you might call Niebuhrian modesty. His decision to expand the war is the most morally consequential one of his presidency so far, yet as the moral stakes rose, Obama’s emotional temperature cooled to just above freezing. He spoke Tuesday night in the manner of an unwilling volunteer, balancing the arguments within his administration by leading the country deeper in while pointing the way out.
Despite the ambivalence, he did act. This is not mishmash. With his two surges, Obama will more than double the number of American troops in Afghanistan. As Andrew Ferguson of The Weekly Standard pointed out, he is the first Democratic president in 40 years to deploy a significant number of troops into a war zone.
Those new troops are not themselves a strategy; they are enablers of an evolving strategy. Over the next year, there will be disasters, errors and surprises — as in all wars. But the generals will have more resources with which to cope and respond.
If the generals continue to find that stationing troops in the villages of Helmand Province leads to the revival of Afghan society, they will have the troops to do more of that. If they continue to find that order can be maintained only if social development accompanies military action, they will have more troops for that. We have no way of knowing now how those troops will end up being used. And we have no clue if it will be wise to withdraw them in July 2011.
The advantage of the Obama governing style is that his argument-based organization is a learning organization. Amid the torrent of memos and evidence and dispute, the Obama administration is able to adjust and respond more quickly than, say, the Bush administration ever did.
The disadvantage is the tendency to bureaucratize the war. Armed conflict is about morale, motivation, honor, fear and breaking the enemy’s will. The danger is that Obama’s analytic mode will neglect the intangibles that are the essence of the fight. It will fail to inspire and comfort. Soldiers and Marines don’t have the luxury of adopting President Obama’s calibrated stance since they are being asked to potentially sacrifice everything.
Barring a scientific breakthrough, we can’t merge Obama’s analysis with George Bush’s passion. But we should still be glad that he is governing the way he is. I loved covering the Obama campaign. But amid problems like Afghanistan and health care, it simply wouldn’t do to give gauzy speeches about the meaning of the word hope. It is in Obama’s nature to lead a government by symposium. Embrace the complexity. Learn to live with the dispassion.
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
|
Dec 12, 2009 - 05:01pm PT
|
Here is another comment about the President's governing style:
"Watching CSPAN last night, I was marvelling at the image of Secretary Clinton (Obama's former opponent), Secretary Gates (who served under a Republican president), Admiral Mullen, and John McCain (Obama's other opponent), all working together for the same cause. The team of rivals approach is brilliant, and I hope other countries are paying attention. It speaks so loudly of the unity of these public servants; they are all Americans and patriots and can acknowledge their differences but work together with respect. It feels like an adult government for the first time in my lifetime."
Of course, LEB does not recognize that this is a diverse approach to problems, as opposed to a dictated approach. It appears that she neither recognizes, nor likes, diversity in any of it's meanings.
|
|
UncleDoug
climber
Places unkown
|
|
|
Dec 13, 2009 - 04:51pm PT
|
The difference between me and the rest of you is that I am aware of the process of what is going on.
Thanks for upholding the bad stereotype Americans have in quite a few eyes of the rest of the world.....Arrogance coupled with idiocy.
Carry on........
|
|
Jeremy Handren
climber
NV
|
|
|
Dec 13, 2009 - 05:04pm PT
|
I think the old bat is edging towards senility, not that there ever was much coherence to her ramblings.
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Dec 13, 2009 - 05:11pm PT
|
"What I "see" in Obama is the same thing you folks "saw" in GWB"
Hardly, you're comparing a mass murderer who has put hard ecconimic times on every nation of the world, for his gain. To a guy (in office less than a year) who annoys you because he is of the wrong party and wrong color. You ccan be so analytic, we really expect more of you than this.
Don't worry, you will no doubt get to resurrect your own Golem/antichrist soon enough.
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
|
Dec 14, 2009 - 02:08am PT
|
David Brooks: "I loved covering the Obama campaign." This is the understatement of the year. After reading his diatribe, the only thing missing are the stars in his eyes.
Obama "groupies" are tiresome at best. They have checked their brains in at the door. I am please to note that the vast majority of Obama supporters on this particular forum do NOT fit into the "groupie" mold. We have somewhat more rational heads here.
Ken, The GOP tends to "diefy" their candidates somewhat less than then the Dems do. You really have to wonder whether some of these guys - like the author of the article you cited - have moved past the emotional age of 14
=
LEB continues to exhibit her ignorance, in this case, of the conservative movement, and the Republican party. She would otherwise know that David Brooks is generally considered the successor to William F. Buckley, the conservatives conservative.
She must also have not ever heard of Saint Ronald.
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Dec 14, 2009 - 02:14am PT
|
The world gave Obama the prize as encouragement to do the right thing since the world sensed he might have it in him to buck the status quo and get real.
His speech told everyone to screw themselves. That he was playing the Bush game more or less,
The only question is..
what's he really think? What's his real strategy? Rope a dope?
Out of my hands. it scares me
Peace
karl
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Dec 14, 2009 - 02:21am PT
|
what's he really think?
That he better play good politics or else he'll get offed and end up in a casket.
I don't think he has much of a choice .....
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Dec 14, 2009 - 03:21am PT
|
yup Werner
It's ironic that what the world needs most is the most cunning traitor
Somebody who will turn and serve the nation and not just those who own the nation's businesses and banks.
That guy better have everything lined up behind him before he gives the wrong signal
peace
Karl
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!