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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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I've yet to see anyone counter Craig's points effectively and honestly. Just blather and insults. Silly.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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^^^^^ I've yet to see anyone counter Craig's... blather and insults.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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crankster... agreed
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Jun 10, 2017 - 06:10am PT
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Craig: right or wrong. Is it OK for White Supremist groups to harass American Muslims?
This seems typical to me. First of all, presenting an either or choice set is hardly a debate. Well, maybe it is in the strictest of senses, but it also seems very adversarial and challenging to anyone who rises to the bait. It would seem that you’re not looking to work out issues, but confront people. You want a fight, I would say.
Second, the way the question about White Supremist and American Muslims is put loads the conversation with a premise that some people would hardly posit in that way. You make an assessment that itself cannot be questioned, and it’s incendiary. Then you ask if it’s ok. It’s the beginning of a rant, and it encourages others to rant in response.
You seem very angry, all the time, Craig. Does that feel good to you? I guess it’s ok with me, but IMO your posts incite disputes that cannot be engaged with consideration, civility, and circumspection because they aren’t posed that way to begin with.
You do have, however, followers, and you do generate more posts from others by what you say. I suppose that’s what’s going on here.
Be well.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jun 10, 2017 - 06:52am PT
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Craig: right or wrong. Is it OK for White Supremist groups to harass American Muslims? Oh my God Mike
I didn't realize you were so out of current events
This reality happened 2 weeks ago with the end result being 2 dead men trying to defend the Muslims
White supremacist arrested in fatal stabbing of two men after anti-Muslim rant in Portland
A 35-year-old white supremacist with a criminal record has been arrested in connection with the stabbing deaths Friday of two men on a light-rail train in Portland, Ore., who intervened when he began to hurl anti-Muslim epithets at two women, one who was wearing a head scarf, police said.
Good or bad?
You make an assessment that itself cannot be questioned, and it’s incendiary.
Mike So it's incendiary to ask about current events?
and that is being questioned by millions of concerned citizens
Sorry, I just assumed you were informed on current events
Mike, you must listen to Alex Jones, please
for educational purposes
supremacist next time I need to get the spelling correct
not angry
just a debate for educational purposes
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Vlad Pricker
Mountain climber
The cliffs of insanitty
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Jun 10, 2017 - 08:35am PT
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More Trump Derangement Syndrome.(TDS)
Yes, we already know that Trump is deranged. What else is new?
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Jun 10, 2017 - 08:56am PT
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SomebodyAnybody: . . . as a counter to your statement that, to you, nothing is good or bad.
You forgot the word, “undeniably.” My statement about debate is what I thought Craig was claiming. I guess my idea of debate is different than yours or Craig's.
A gentleman’s tone is strident? Ok.
Nihilism is a “seeing.” For those who see that there is no value that doesn’t rely upon a philosophy or ideology, foolishness is not possible. (Think about it.)
(I guess I shouldn’t say “be well” to you.)
Craig:
Sure I heard about the event in Portland. Try not to get too upset about it. It’s a few people.
If you need events to wring your hands over, you can consider the number of wars going on at the moment, and the results.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflicts
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jun 10, 2017 - 09:07am PT
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Goggle
Nihilism is the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated. It is often associated with extreme pessimism and a radical skepticism that condemns existence. A true nihilist would believe in nothing, have no loyalties, and no purpose other than, perhaps, an impulse to destroy.
Nihilism (/ˈnaɪ.ᵻlɪzəm/ or /ˈniː.ᵻlɪzəm/; from the Latin nihil, nothing) is a philosophical doctrine that suggests the lack of belief in one or more reputedly meaningful aspects of life. Most commonly, nihilism is presented in the form of existential nihilism, which argues that life is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value.[1] Moral nihilists assert that there is no inherent morality, and that accepted moral values are abstractly contrived. Nihilism may also take epistemological, ontological, or metaphysical forms, meaning respectively that, in some aspect, knowledge is not possible, or reality does not actually exist.
The term is sometimes used in association with anomie to explain the general mood of despair at a perceived pointlessness of existence that one may develop upon realising there are no necessary norms, rules, or laws.[2] Movements such as futurism and deconstruction,[3] among others, have been identified by commentators[4] as "nihilistic".
Nihilism has also been described as conspicuous in or constitutive of certain historical periods: for example, Jean Baudrillard and others have called postmodernity a nihilistic epoch;[5] and some religious theologians and figures of religious authority have asserted that postmodernity[6] and many aspects of modernity[3] represent a rejection of theism, and that such rejection of theistic doctrine entails nihilism.
Is there any benefit?
or are we done here?
I don't see how someone can debate with someone that denies everything
I guess this debate may not even be happening, How can we know for sure?
I'm not wringing my hands, I just want to know what's going on, it doesn't hurt to know,
I'm a big boy, I can handle it.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jun 10, 2017 - 09:16am PT
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Solipsism (Listeni/ˈsɒlᵻpsɪzəm/; from Latin solus, meaning 'alone', and ipse, meaning 'self')[1] is the philosophical idea that only one's own mind is sure to exist. As an epistemological position, solipsism holds that knowledge of anything outside one's own mind is unsure; the external world and other minds cannot be known and might not exist outside the mind. As a metaphysical position, solipsism goes further to the conclusion that the world and other minds do not exist.
wiki
What makes solipsism a bad, incohent, or unviable philosophy?
https://www.quora.com/What-makes-solipsism-a-bad-incohent-or-unviable-philosophy
This is beautifully answered in David Deutsch's book "The Fabric of Reality". It comes down to these things:
1. it is not testable. therefore it cannot be validated any more than any other non-testable idea.
2. It does not add any explanatory power while making things more complicated: If the world you perceive is actually just imagination, then still it affects you. An "imaginary" injury still hurts. The imaginary planets still move according to apparent laws. Therefore they should be explored and investigated. Imaginary laws are still laws. If then, without any good reason, you introduce a hypothesis about solipsism into this world, you do not explain the perceived environment (with all its virtual effects on you) a tad better; you just add a very complex, untestable component. Nothing won.
3. There is a paradox: Solipsism cannot actually imply that there is just one mind. Because this mind is exposed to some (imaginary) environment, it does not have this environment under its own control. So, actually solipsism requires two kinds of minds: consciousness/awareness and a second part that is out of control. This second part is the reality. It does not matter so much if it is then tangible or intangible: It affects the conscious/aware part of that mind.
This second part is the reality
2 Realities, the one inside the mind, and the real one that you still have to live no matter what you mind thinks
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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Jun 10, 2017 - 10:29am PT
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The Big Bamboozler
God bless those Americans
Who voted for their savior
If Jesus were a businessman
He'd have combover orange hair
May god protect and keep him
For there's no there, there
With that Russian hacking witch hunt
And collusion in the air
Bada bing, bada boom
He'll make America great again
Bada bing, bada boom
Nothing shady, nothing cheesy
Bada bing, bada boom
A big wall and Muslim ban
Bada bing, bada boom
Who knew it would be so easy?
God bless all those republicans
Who bowed down to his followers
Just to clinch the majority
They couldn't get much hollower
They would sell out their own mothers
In the hope to wield more power
Now they've sold their souls to Satan
And we all must watch him glower
Bada bing, bada boom
He's ready to make America great
Bada bing, bada boom
With all those nukes back on the plate
Bada bing, bada boom
There's always someone new to hate
Bada bing, bada boom
He will will get angrier, just wait
God bless all those Americans
We shall reap what they have sewn
God bless them for their ignorance
But now their racism can show
God bless all those Americans
For little did they know
They've been duped by the biggest bamboozler
The world has ever Known
Bada bing, bada boom
He'll make America great again
Bada bing, bada boom
You thought the Mafia was sleazy?
Bada bing, bada boom
Who knew it would be so easy?
Bada bing, bada boom
To let a con supplant your brain
-bushman
06/10/2017
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Jun 10, 2017 - 02:17pm PT
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Very nice, Bush.
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Vlad Pricker
Mountain climber
The cliffs of insanitty
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Jun 10, 2017 - 02:22pm PT
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All interesting. A lot of good points, about metadata and AI. How come nobody has mentioned Cambridge Analytics?
I suppose in some people's eyes and views, it is not worth mentioning. Not in my eyes though, nor my views. The manipulation, especially using social media.
Everybody is doing it, the loco motion.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jun 10, 2017 - 02:31pm PT
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So some people are demonstrating against the idea of implementing Sharia in the US?
Stripped from Wiki:
A 2011 UNICEF report concludes that sharia law provisions are discriminatory against women from a human rights perspective. In legal proceedings under sharia law, a woman’s testimony is worth half of a man’s before a court.
UNICEF and other studies state that the top five nations in the world with highest observed child marriage rates – Niger (75%), Chad (72%), Mali (71%), Bangladesh (64%), Guinea (63%) – are Islamic-majority countries where the personal laws for Muslims are sharia-based.
Rape is considered a crime in all countries, but sharia courts in Bahrain, Iraq, Jordan, Libya, Morocco, Syria and Tunisia in some cases allow a rapist to escape punishment by marrying his victim, while in other cases the victim who complains is often prosecuted with the crime of Zina(adultery).
Starting with the 20th century, Western legal systems evolved to expand women's rights, but women's rights under Islamic law have remained tied to the Quran, hadiths and their fundamentalist interpretation as sharia by Islamic jurists.
Yeah, that sounds like a recipe for success...
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 10, 2017 - 02:42pm PT
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Does anyone really think that American Muslims want to trade their lifestyle in America for Sharia Law?
It makes no sense. It is like saying all Christians support the KKK.
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Vlad Pricker
Mountain climber
The cliffs of insanitty
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Jun 10, 2017 - 03:10pm PT
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Will, I agree on that one. Sharia law is an obsolete archaic system, sort of like the Electoral College, but far, far worse (though the latter did put Trump in office).
I, for one, think that many religions have taken at least one step out of their "ancient" roots, but Sharia Law is worrying. It is so seventh century.
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Jun 10, 2017 - 07:21pm PT
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Craig:
I’m not sure what subset would constitute a “true nihilist.” I don’t agree with the definition you provided. It doesn’t matter, does it?
I don’t believe in any value being sacrosanct or paramount. They are all socially constructed. They are all culturally dependent.
How about you?
As for solipsism, the definition seems in the ballpark for me.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jun 10, 2017 - 07:26pm PT
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Me, not a nihilist or solipsist
The nihilist post were the first 2 Goggle entries, the first one was a little more harsh than I would agree upon
Now a skeptic that questions everything that hasn't been subject to extensive scientific scrutiny
It's a comfortable place to be
I can't see me diverting from this position
UNLESS!!! there is evidence that proves me wrong, then I will embrace the new reality
live in the moment, in the living reality that we all experience, embrace it because that's all there is us as humans, ~80 years of experiences, make them great
there isn't much more...
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jun 10, 2017 - 08:05pm PT
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Sharia Law will never be law in America just as Christian Biblical Law will never be the law of the land.
Our Constitution is set up to maintain a separation between Government and Religion
So if you fear Sharia Law... you are paranoid xenophobe
my opinion open to debate
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Jun 11, 2017 - 10:37am PT
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Demonstrating against sharia law in the US is just about the biggest demonstration of gullibility and strawman building ever.
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