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Fossil climber
Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 2, 2017 - 04:40pm PT
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Watch for a “Reichstag Fire”. At this point, or shortly, a major crisis will explode, as it did with the Reichstag fire in Germany which allowed Hitler to restrict civil rights, consolidate power and increase militarization. Look it up.
Look soon for an “emergency” such as a major terrorist attack (which is probably inevitable anyway), a real or contrived assassination attempt, a real or contrived North Korean or Russian plot or aggression, or something similar. The public will immediately want a “strong leader”. Civil rights will be cut way back in the sacred name of national security, President says “I told you so” and gains ersatz credibility. Declares a state of emergency. Many Muslims to camps. Possibly no return from this. History has shown this pattern repeatedly, including false flag operations, and the less support a leader has the more likely he is to initiate such a situation.
the US is on the way down, and has been ever since we went into Iraq.
There’s a faint hope. It might be that enough House Republicans will get so nervous about this unpredictable childish narcissist that they will impeach or pressure him to resign - which he might, as he is used to having the last word with no constraints or criticisms - and has already said he missed his old life. That would leave Pence, which could also be disastrous in a more disciplined way.
But there’s hope there too. There may be so many Repubs disillusioned that the House may have Democratic control after the next elections. This is what we must work on.
It isn’t just the US that is in great danger from Trump and those Repugnicans who place party ahead of country, but the whole world.
Don’t just keep your fingers crossed. Go and do something about it! We are in real danger here.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Too many Republicans are too scared to speak up about Trump. There is little hope until they grow some balls
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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YES! the volatile blind minority of scared sheep enableth a paradoxical expansion of flagsucking martial governance by the "party of limited government".
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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kingdom of fear. spot f*#king on.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Timely thread and good analysis.
I'd like to think you are wrong, however, about the United States. That's a hope though, not an argument.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there say, fossil climber...
an old 94 year old german, that i help, as to her age, since she is my friend,
(she was in the war, and there in germany when it built up and then started, and thus, ended, at well--and was in berlin, when it was bombed out) ...
well, she has been feeling and thinking,as to the same as your post...
* oddly, she recently mentioned this, :O
it is scare stuff, all right... :O
especially from someone that 'say the signs' but did not understand
where it was leading, and now looks back... :O
not many her age, are left, that can say this... :O
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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More Trump Derangement Syndrome.(TDS)
*yawn*
Another flagrant violation of Godwin's law.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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The evil that men do lives after them
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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There is one enormous difference between 1933 and the present. I don't know if it will be enough to prevent what you fear happening, but in the time before the Reichstag fire, who could have posted up a warning to beware of such an event?
The advent of the internet has given a voice to all, and, although it sometimes seems that most of the "all" are batshit crazy and that the world would be better off if they didn't post, at least you are able to offer your warning.
And you are hardly alone.
In the years leading up to 1933, not only would you not have been able to broadcast your warning, you may well have been beaten, or jailed, if you'd shouted it on a streetcorner. Many here on ST decry modern journalism, but they have no idea how much of an oxymoron "freedom of the press" was until the late 20th century -- not just in Germany, but in the US as well.
So, while I don't disagree that Donald Trump, or someone who can pull his strings, might manufacture a Reichstag fire, I hope that enough of the US population will be prepared for it, and prepared to call it for what it is, that it fails.
And, if everything does go to sh#t, at least you and Cindy are well away from it up there. (And, in another year, us too.)
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WBraun
climber
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Well ....Trump pulled out of the Paris climate accord, and ...
This means no carbon tax.
So gas prices should, therefore, drop almost instantly?
So go get em Americanos, and enjoy yer big ass American gas guzzling cars again :-)
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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They said the same thing about Obama. A few years ago I would have thought the theory was ludicrous. However We are now in uncharted territory. Trump would love to invoke martial law. Will the Orange ShitGibbon silence Comey?
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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The most fervently devoted of the well armed 34% would quickly form regional, ultra nationalist melitias. They would certainly be coerced by elements the Alt Right/Trump/Putin alliance which would validate the claim of a popular uprising and cloak a blatant abrogation of the Constitution by the legislative branch.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Outside the Asylum
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On Wednesday, I went to a program sponsored by the Law Society here, on the rule of law - a fundamental part of the constitution of Canada and the USA. The talks were by Anne Egeler, Deputy Solicitor General of Washington State and part of the attorney team challenging President Trump's executive orders (on immigration), and Richard Gordon, QC, lead counsel for Wales in the high-profile Brexit case Miller v. Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union. In both cases, of course, the government resoundingly lost, in the case of the Trump administration repeatedly.
Ms. Egeler observed that the government has so far not advanced any factual basis on which to base its orders. It is a necessary prerequisite that there be at least some factual basis. She also said that although the government concedes that the executive orders are subject to court review, it has consistently argued that no action by the president is subject to review. In other words, that the president is above the law.
The high-profile antics of Trump and gang are worrying. But it's the things that we're not hearing about, the dogs that aren't barking, that are of real concern. The numerous senior positions in the government where the administration hasn't even nominated anyone to fill them. Health care and budget proposals that are DOA. Whether it's the Russians or the Kochs who own Trump, or both, they're getting their money's worth.
After seeing what happened in 2001 - 03, it would be no surprise if Trump et al used a real or fabricated crisis to advance their agenda.
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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three reasons why it won't happen, or at least be effective, at this point in history, even if it was tried:
1. Ghost already stated reason number one. for a domestic "reichstag fire" to be effective the white house would have to control the press, to a much greater degree than it does. the "internet" can be influenced for sure. we likely saw that with the last election. otoh, it's pretty hard to lock, stock and barrel put the genie back in the bottle. that would require the whole tech leadership being complicit. while i'm reasonably suspicious that zuckerburg would be on board, there are many other nodes that wouldn't be. and if you can't control the "tubes", you can't control either the manna or the shIt flowing down them.
2. the u.s. has internal checks and balances. shIt, trump and co can't even get a watered down "muslim ban" into place... and this is after their predecessor had set the stage for them by already unilaterally bombing every nation on the list. you seriously think the u.s. judiciary, the c.i.a. and f.b.i., can be co-opted in the same fashion that the bureaucratic infrastructure of pre wwII germany's was? if so please see point one. maybe in a couple more election cycles... we have for example already progressed from palin to the orange shIt-gibbon in the last eight years. but, in the next four or even eight years? nah, not even close on my estimation.
3. it already happened. who needs a domestic "reichstag fire" and the complexities of domestic "muslim" or "liberal" or any other camps when the president already has all of the tools he needs on a global level thanks to nine/eleven. now before you dismiss this and assume i'm saying that was an "inside job" hear me out.
the whole "inside job" debate [just like the rebub vs dem debate] keeps the plebs like you and me occupied when the actual truth is as follows: it doesn't matter whether it was an inside job or not.
the aftermath was an inside job of epic proportion, that with military psy-op precision and efficiency, a world was beget, at a crucial moment in history, where, with first dubya bush and then obeezy as pitch person, we got the following:
 a world where a president can unilaterally decide to murder even american citizens as long as they aren't on u.s soil, with the only public oversight being the recurrent four year "democratic" vote.
a world where individuals in armed services operate effective "flying robots" generally in deserts on the other side of the world, in order to murder individuals they most often don't know the identity of and often due only to their targets exhibiting activity patterns that deem them "likely combatants" but who then turn out to be a civilian on average of one fatality per every strike. and all of this happens in countries the u.s. isn't even "at war" with...
a world where a "liberal" and nobel peace prize winning u.s. president can drop twenty thousand bombs on a single country without declaring war on it. and in the process kill according to the pentagon itself about 500 civilians over 2.5 years and according to independent toe tag counters a minimum of 3817 civilians [due to "coalition" bombings] over the same time period. and our corporate "mainstream" media gives press to what during the same time period?
a world where the emergent data streams have been wholistically stored, filtered, and processed in non-transparent ways. ie. we now know, due in no thanks to the spooks, the congress nor the whitehouse, that the "metadata" is put through the process above, but anyone with open eyes has to wonder what the enormously large data storage and processing facilities are really doing, when if it was only meta data processing that was happening there would be no need for facilities of the size that have been built in the last ten years.
a world where secret court orders that can't be discussed can shut down and force tech company activities in ways that generally only end up being hinted at by the death of web based "canaries".
a world where without explanation or necessary reason one can be put on a no-fly list indefinitely and without recourse.
and a-that's-off-the-top-of-my-head-based etc.
you're worried about a "reichstag fire"?
it can't happen, at least for individuals not on u.s. soil...
that's because for them it already happened.
edit to add: nice, much more succinct cross-post, Walleye...
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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I think I like this Nah000. Cogent.
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Fossil climber
Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 2, 2017 - 08:13pm PT
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Lots of good points above. Thanks, all.
There are certainly many differences between the present situation and Germany in the 30s; I certainly won't argue that.
But I'll leave you to speculate on what the reaction of the polity and the citizenry might be in the event of another 9/11 magnitude event, which is by no means unlikely.
Thanks for thinking about it. We need to.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Good presentation, NahOOO.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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In the 5,000 year history of failed states and destroyed societies, these handful of fledgling, free market, social Democracies have legislated, on a piece of paper, an iron clad solution to man's hubris and greed?
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Ha-ha. Yup.
Anyone who writes, "“We hold these Truths to be self-evident. . . " is an ideologue.
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