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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 11, 2015 - 09:22am PT
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A nice Brazilian is always welcome, Larry.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Nov 11, 2015 - 09:36am PT
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Why do you suppose they chose $65 trillion as the magic fabricated number?
Why not $238 trillion?
Or a quadrillion?
Or a bazillion?
I mean, it's not about facts, it's about inflaming as much of the base as possible. The more hyperbolic, the better, right RepubDroids?
Derp!
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 11, 2015 - 09:37am PT
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Way to take the high road, Sketch. We expect nothing less.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Nov 11, 2015 - 09:41am PT
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I try.
It was either "Derp" or "Quit playing stupid, you f*#king troll!!!" ;-)
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 11, 2015 - 09:43am PT
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True. I can't count the number of times people have said that to you, to no avail. 'Derp' is soooo much more to the point.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Nov 11, 2015 - 09:44am PT
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Why the changing numbers? This.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
"How many communists are there in the defense department?"
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Nov 11, 2015 - 09:44am PT
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Apogee and Jethro Bodine.... math braintrusts.
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Nov 11, 2015 - 09:47am PT
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he debt is astronomical and can't even be put into a monetary figure.
Oh really, spacecase-man. On Earth, it can. On your planet, debt is measure how? Stones? Spacedust?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 11, 2015 - 09:49am PT
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'spose Donna Douglas ever had a Brazilian?
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Nov 11, 2015 - 09:53am PT
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There is a calculable monetary figure, but that does not capture the environmental devastation and the human suffering. I suspect it is thusly that the duck speaketh.
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HermitMaster
Social climber
my abode
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Nov 11, 2015 - 10:09am PT
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Apogee and Jethro Bodine.... math braintrusts.
LOL!!!
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Nov 11, 2015 - 10:18am PT
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The moderators just kept lobbing them slow pitch softballs, and they just responded with the same mom and apple pie crap they always parrot, hitting slow dribblers that were booted by the inept panel. When asked what their strategy was to win the election and why they are qualified, they said they needed to beat Hillary. Wow, that is deep...
During the debate and post-debate interviews, the moderators dislocated their shoulders patting themselves on the back, and the candidates told them how bitchen they were.
I would pay to see a Hillary/Fiorina cage match though. They both have huge chips on their shoulders and a lot of pent up frustration to release.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Nov 11, 2015 - 11:37am PT
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Stahl, that's about the best you could have gotten from a Fox debate. It's basically the Republican National Committee's private network.
At least we don't have to hear all the crying about media bias.
Love the irony.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Nov 11, 2015 - 11:38am PT
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Fritz,
I, too, take my employment data from the BLS. For some reason, the computer where I am now won't copy the total employment table, but the total nonfarm employment under this administration didn't reach the high of the previous administration until 2014, and the total employment throughout this administration's tenure has been, generally, abysmal, and particularly so when compared with any other postwar recession. The Pew Research Trust, not exactly a Republican shill, had an excellent concerning this issue about a year ago:
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/06/23/five-years-in-recovery-still-underwhelms-compared-with-previous-ones/
We both know that unemployment rates during this time have comparability issues with those of previous recessions, due to the very low labor participation rate, so I put little reliance on unemployment rates. The overall level of employment is comparable, but it should be divided by the number of working-age Americans. When we do that, the picture is grim, indeed:
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS12300000
It was on the basis of this data that I made my statement, and I stand by it.
John
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Nov 11, 2015 - 11:40am PT
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I'm sure you thought the questions were fair & balanced, Edward, as well as hard-hitting. A steady diet of Fox will have that effect on you,
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2015 - 11:54am PT
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John posted the total nonfarm employment under this administration didn't reach the high of the previous administration until 2014, and the total employment throughout this administration's tenure has been, generally, abysmal, and particularly so when compared with any other postwar recession.
Gee, if only Obama had created a housing bubble. Or run a 50% larger deficit while also leaving billions in war spending out of the budget. By Obama standards Bush (aided by Congress) was running a massive Keynesian cash infusion into the US economy. In 2008 we were literally posting on this forum that the Republicans were going to blame the economic crash on Obama down the road. Now here we are, Republicans have done everything humanly possible short of actual arson to prevent Obama from doing even the things that Bush did to stimulate the economy and who are you blaming...?
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Norton
Social climber
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Nov 11, 2015 - 11:56am PT
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jobs - employment
government creates and maintains a pretty much fixed number of jobs
city, state, county and federals employees
and so it is the private sector that largely responsible for the job market
many private sector jobs are tied directly and indirectly to government contracts
interest rates and corporate profits are at historic lows and highs now
fortunes are being made in a very strong stock market
automation and greatly improved efficiency and productivity have eliminated millions
and millions of jobs in all but the higher tech sectors
and like mass firearm murders there is not much we can do to improve things
massive public works projects are a no go with this divided government
it is what is it, and it ain't anyone's "fault", except to ignorant partisan whiners
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Nov 11, 2015 - 12:03pm PT
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Norton, the first two years (really the first three) of this recession had massive "shovel ready" projects appropriated. Remember? After all, we now have those nice curbs on Yosemite's roads.
And I have yet to see any refutation of the BLS numbers relating to employment as a percentage of population. They plunged to levels well below those previously, and stayed there during all the "pump-priming" to which you allude.
The one constant through this time has been this administration's hostility to business. While the administration's defenders stubbornly cling to their fantasy that the regulations and actions of this administration have had only a positive effect on employment, the statistics say otherwise.
John
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Nov 11, 2015 - 12:34pm PT
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The stimulus increased the number of jobs paid for by the Feds. But during that same period, states cut a lot of jobs, especially teachers and police. Total government employment was pretty flat. If not for the stimulus, it would have declined.
Presidents frequently get more credit/blame than they deserve. Comparing job stats for an administration that came to office at the beginning of the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression with other administrations is pretty lame.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Nov 11, 2015 - 12:34pm PT
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Good post, JE.
Work force participation is at historic lows. The unemployment and job creation numbers give me pause.
The recent jobs report stated 271,000 new jobs were created in October. What gets overlooked is 378,000 jobs went to the over 55 crowd, with 25-54 group showing a loss of 35,000. Males in this age group tumbled by 119,000!
The Obama recovery has done well. Better than I expected. But there's been a lot of government priming of the pump, which is now incorporated into the economy. At some point, we're gonna have a recession/pullback. When that happens, I'm not sure the government/Fed will have any tools to effectively buffer the decline.
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