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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Jul 26, 2006 - 10:54am PT
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He wrote: "It is bullsh!t, but not the way you have it phrased above, which is to shift the onus of truth on the climbing community at large, and to hold them totally responsible for the doubts raised by many.""
Nope, that's not what I said.
I said that it sucks that apparently you now need a camera and a witness or some intenet wanks will crap all over what you might have done."
I think you're gettig confused about first causes. It's my understanding that initial doubts were raised NOT because MR lacked photographic evidence, but because his reports and the reports of others about specific climbs were somwhat contradictory, and mutated over time. Once that kind of doubt is raised, it's probably the case that nothing short of a video will truly clear the air. IOW, it's not the lack of photos or the after the fact bashing that raised the doubt, but the confusing and inconsistant reporting in the first place.
JL
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Kevin Daniels
climber
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Jul 26, 2006 - 05:05pm PT
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i just read FERAL MISBEHAVINGS by Michael Reardon on page 72 volume 8 issue 3 GRIPPED magazine.
mike discribes his Romantic Warrior solo.
i realized it is mikes inconsistant actions that personally make me uncomfortable when people ask me my opinion. i believe mike or any other climber is capably of this feat. it is the constant awarness i have of the incongruant behavior and verbage that causes my state of mind. i have never climbed with mike but do know him and he is a nice guy. i am in the position where i have to choose between not making a comment or stating yes or no to people.
in the R&I article the route was " A CAKE WALK " he overtrained and specifically trained for the CRUX STEMMING. but when it was time for the photos opted not to climb the crux pitch. THIS IS NOT CONSISTANT ACTION AND VERBALIZATION. he trained for the stemming and their is no stemming pictures i have seen at all.
in the Gripped artice i quote mike here " f*#king great, i mumble under my breath. six hundred feet from the deck on a multi-pitch 5.12b ive never done before, i cant afford the luxury of a second thought as the icy chill starts up the base of my spine. im without a rope and too far in to reverse the way i came"
again these to articles totally contridict each other as they cover the same experience mike had.
the article in gripped seemed like a more genuine experience ?
again i mean no disrespect but ALLOT of things are contridictory when i look at mikes facts and actions.
kevin daniels
714 642 5354
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Jul 26, 2006 - 06:41pm PT
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jesus christ, now it's mike's fault that two different authors and two different editorial staffs paint two different pictures in two different articles in two different magazines?
all this he said she said stuff and the everyone but ghandi lacks credibility crap is just what dirt says- simply unfair BS. he can claim this and that, and you can believe it or not, but in the end who really cares? the guy could solo dean potter style (see astroman and delicate arch), w/ camera crews at the ready, but that is a pathway to criticism in itself (you think the guy is called a self promoter now? and will hans florine ever not be "hollywood hans"?), and can you say that you would want to see that sort of set up in the corner of your eye on a FS where you were pushing it? really? go on then, push yourself w/ no rope, in front of a camera, i'd like to see that myself (some fairly unathletic looking guy at manure pile once pulled out a video camera when i walked up to solo after 7, and i remember thinking that i hope i make his yosemite vacation memories video, but if i were needing every bit of focus i could gather, i would rather be alone thanks).
someone above claims 1st hand, same day, chip right out of the camera viewing of equinox solo pics, what are you all saying to that? "OK then, i guess that particular concern on my part was not valid..." ??? so go ahead, step up and say so if you ever openly and publicly doubted that ascent, or where is YOUR "credibility"?? (as if it really matters to anyone in this junior high school hallway rumor-mill anyway).
as for astroman, that climb seems to me to be representative of what may be in large part (and in response to largo's post) the genisis of some of the misgivings about the guy and his claims.
he is not "from yosemite"
he is from LA and has "big hair"
he is not one of those cool kids in that yosemite stoners club (no offense, but that is undeniably the center of some universe or another), and he's made claims that trump some of yosemite's icons greatest feats.
now you say he needs to do astroman to prove he is legit-
well to me, astroman and yosemite granite in general is a pretty different animal than what he seems to climb on more regularly, no friction, ivory smooth, all of that. so would he have to take some long trip to get used to that type of rock, that sort of security? does he have the time (family, career, other priorities, etc)? and why ought he to do this? just for the pleasing of some people that are less than... friends?
that's a really great motivation, dontchya think?
(equally so, come on JB, free shoes for life? do you really think anyone who would even try to follow MR for a day would ever be looking at needing to buy their own shoes? not hardly pal, come on and pony up a $ figure! we could sell the event to OLN or even pay-per-view and be in the black for sure!)
anyways, back to MR for just a minute-
when i met him he was quietly watching me from the parking lot as i struggled on my 1st attempt on the left ski track. i had never watched it climbed and i was trying to jamb the flaring crack, right at/below where you can lay back the ear/flake thing, a short ways below the bolt. after i took and hung there i was still perplexed and i lowered/aided off to rest and give it another go from the ground. he came over and told me to trust my gear and go for it. i asked him fior the beta in that part and he gave it to me (and i did get it clean, but not until the next day, thanks again mike).
anyway, in that short conversation, i made a joke about the gear and what did he know about trusting gear, yada yada yada, was he just waiting for me to get my gear out of his way, etc.
he replied that he was a few days away from feeling up to soloing the LST, and then he walked right up the RST and took off. so there's videos of the guy on EBGBS, stills of him on equinox (and the 12a but not 12b bits of RW), he's done something like 260 or 280 routes solo in a day in JT, but still on some days, or when he's not in a rythem or hasn't been climbing(?), the LST is too much. knowing all this, clearly he is full of sh#t about this one crux pitch of this one climb at a cragg that he solos at frequently and would likely feel really familiar with and whatnot, and is he ever can't repeat a previous performance then everything he has ever said is in doubt, is that it?
whatever, i could care less what people i don't know think of someone i just met one time, but seriously, not-fer-nothin, but ya'll should just hear yourselves, sounds like a bunch of fuking kids in the schoolyard to me.
PS- i've solo'd FV when it was soaked, climbed it on a rope w/ my wife the other week and i needed to sew up the wet stuff, go figure.
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Kevin Daniels
climber
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Jul 26, 2006 - 07:31pm PT
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matt
as i stated the author of the gripped article is michael. have you read it ? and the R & I article was quoted by mike. did you read it ?
i know mike and would honestly love to completly support him. i am challenged by this often. i did not ask for the position i am in and i have not commented for a long time. it would be really easy for mike to adress this. he does not have to solo this or that or get this or that image. he just needs to sit back and do what he does AND be consistant with his statments and actions.
whats you last name matt ? so if i ever meet you i can properly introduce myself ?
thanks
kevin daniels
714 642 5354
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
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Jul 26, 2006 - 08:04pm PT
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Kevin, if you would use your real name you might get the answers you seek.
(how's the poker game?? Missed you last month in Bishop)
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Jul 26, 2006 - 08:23pm PT
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kevin-
i haven't "read" either article. i did look at the porn in R&I and may have skimmed some of it- i can't even recall to be honest. my point is still valid if MR wrote one article and not the other- two authors, two editors, two articles, two magazines, and R&I ain't exactly fine journalism. those rag articles are all written w/ a particular perspective, often bringing something that feels commercial and is otherwise unrelated into the mix (example: why does dean potter soloing seperate reality have anything to do w/ the delicate arch stuff? i don't see how it does, but they call it some sort of "redemption" binge or something to that affect, in a headline or subtitle- why is that? did he ever say anything like that it was all about his own redemption, or that of his image, or that of his sponsors? doesn't that seem odd to you (that it would say that in the headline)?
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jul 26, 2006 - 08:27pm PT
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Wierd thread, why is this so important?
Anas- shoes only approach their full potential after the first re-sole.
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Kevin Daniels
climber
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Jul 26, 2006 - 08:42pm PT
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hi russ
i have been getting schooled as i learn the game. i asked neil this morning when the next one is.
do you still have that chair / ledge prototype i got from rudy ?
do you ever talk to him ?
i am at 381 east line, next to the rehad center if it gets bad.
let me know your ETA.
ya i dont really know the protocal with this web stuff. i still got a commodor 64. rocks and stick is my craft.
kevin daniels
714 642 5354
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
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Jul 26, 2006 - 10:56pm PT
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Kev, I'll be through the Bishop area in Sept... home game for sure. Neil is in the loop... We'll get a hold of ya! Doug is in Co still... a lifer.
Now about that Reardon kid...... what can one say..... pretty spectacular stuff. Fact or fiction.... hmmmmmmm.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Jul 26, 2006 - 11:29pm PT
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John Long,
I don't CARE about first causes, and I am not confused.
IT is really very simple. People are calling for someone to perform to their satisfaction, on demand, an exacting feat, and this feat is the sort of thing that should only be done when the person actually DOING the feat feels like he wants to, and for no other reason.
I sincerely hope that Mike Reardon along with any other person contemplating free soloing will NEVER do it to please critics, nor to remove doubt from the minds of others.
I DON'T CARE what MR's reasons for soloing are, I don't care if he is a shameless self promoter, I don't even care if he is lying his ass off. I don't care if he can free solo 5.14, onsight, on a rainy day, either.
I only know him from a few messages, and he seemed fine to me, a lot more the kind of person I'd like to meet than the ones calling for the dunking stool.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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I have no problem believing he did most or all of the freesolos he claims, but he does kind of remind me of the Grizzly Bear dude. The only real question I have is what would Harding have rated MR if he were writing Downward Bound today...?
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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I love it that the Vampire wallpaper (I think it's Vampire) link is named tic_tic_boom_lg.html. =)
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klinefelter
Boulder climber
Bishop, CA
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"It’s funny how the biggest naysayer is always the one you never see at the crag. You can check out the video of the Vampire yourself at www.freesolomovie.com."
Mr. Kranzle,
I could not find the video of The Vampire on your freesolomovie.com flashsite. Please advise.
See you at the crags,
Tom
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Murf
climber
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There's a short segment of the Vampire in the first trailer, seconds 28-32. They are of the traverse on P2, and cycle out before the crux move to the big hold. He never lets go of the last big handhold on the traverse.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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And then you want Mike to prove something by endangering his own life for your juicy gossip forum and entertainment! As dirtineye eloquently said (I agree with him this once): that's bullsh#t. You should be ashamed
I'm knott sure this is entirely fair. Cameras were in place for several of his solos, as depicted
in Return To Sender, ect. One would assume they were notified and set up in advance.
A quick two-large could be made by 2 extra e-mails or phone calls, assuming that
video crew would be notified to film an onsight of Astroman. What's the big deal?
BTW, I checked the website linked above, and couldn't find any Vampire footage either.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 1, 2006 - 02:12pm PT
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Yes, very sorry to disturb you with a climbing related topic.
Maybe you didn't like my choice of words, 'reports are filtering in.' oh well. I read here and on RC that climbers had seen him TRing the climb. Thought it would be an interesting climbing topic, since it involves a bit of controversy, and climbing at world class levels. my bad.
I did think Matt was the funniest, since he's telling us all to STFU, basically what he gets on a weekly basis for his non climbing politcal threads. Whatever.
Mike doesn't have to go out and solo and die. But it has been such a weird saga! Stories change? Photos are up on his site then disappear? People see him back off .10 and .11 stuff, then he OS solos a .12b that the best climbers in the world have fallen on. People climb the Palisade traverse soon after MR is there, and doesn't find his vagisil?
And then we get a bunch of clowns that tell us we should solo behind Mike for a day? Like that proves anything except that I suck? The whole thing really is ridiculous. And I can't say I really find a lifetime of free shoes that appealing. Whoopee. I have a job, thanks.
I have no doubt Mike is a strong climber. I hear about him soloing stuff all the time. But soloing every route on Hemingway is a bit different from OS soloing at a world class level. Had there been no question marks, had the stories been consistent, I'd be persuadeable. I've got no horse in this race.
And what's up with his buddies posting up here, but won't name any climbs? That's just... I don't even know what that is!
With regard to the video posted, I couldn't see it. But that might be my computer. But what does that prove? He soloed the route on film. After TRing it several times. After claiming he's soloed it 3x previously???? Is it just me, or does that raise more questions than it answers?
Anyway, there's a few of my thoughts on this not-so-dead horse. BTW, if any of the facts/assumptions listed above are incorrect, please feel free to correct me.
It's a big circus. For a punter like me, it's entertaining.
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WBraun
climber
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The video should be titled "Return To Slander"
Hahahaha .........
Ok, carry on.
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Rankin
climber
Bishop, CA
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caughtinside, do you free solo?
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 1, 2006 - 02:33pm PT
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Now, does that have anything to do with Reardon?
But to answer your question, yes and no. I don't do it regularly. I can't say I really enjoy it. Every time I've done it, I didn't feel awesome, or cool, or whatever. My hardest OS free solo is 5.6, and hardest solo is .7. Not hard.
Are my questions less valid?
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Rankin
climber
Bishop, CA
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Actually, questions are neither valid nor invalid...they're questions. Answers and reasoning, however, can be invalid.
I do take it as your opinion, though you've never stated it, that you don't think MR soloed RW. That's fine. But it's your reasoning that's invalid. Not because you haven't free soloed above 5.7, but because you don't seem to understand hard soloing. Soloing near one's limit is just that. So if you think MR didn't solo RW, state it, and move on, and quit with all this Perry Mason of supertaco bullsh#t. You're not convincing anyone of anything.
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