Discussion Topic |
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 19, 2006 - 05:50pm PT
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Reports are filtering in that MR was seen toproping the Vampire at Taquitz last weekend. Allegedly, he was hanging, despite his claims that he free soloed the thing 3x (with no one watching.)
Was anyone here there to witness this event?
Does this cast doubt on the claim of the onsight FS of Romantic Warrior?
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Jul 19, 2006 - 05:54pm PT
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Oh yeah hey, nobody ever had a bad day, un-uh, no sireeebobby, never.
It is inconceivable that any climber who ever free soloed anything could possibly hang on any route ever again in their life, that just can't happen.
Not in a thousand years.
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Blitzo
Social climber
Earth
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Jul 19, 2006 - 05:54pm PT
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Sounds like there is something fishy going on!
We can't talk about this subject at joshuatreeclimb.com!
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 19, 2006 - 05:56pm PT
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Dirt, a route you had FS'ed 3 times previously? That is something like 8 grades easier than a really long climb that you onsite FSed?
I'm just askin...
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Jul 19, 2006 - 05:59pm PT
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So in the recent Gripped magazine, there is a photo of Reardon free soloing on Romantic Warrior. Who took the picture? Wasn't this ascent witnessed? Why is his credibility doubted if there was a witness present, with a camera?
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 19, 2006 - 06:00pm PT
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Pete,
if I'm not mistaken, he only went back and did a few sections FS of RW with a camera, not including the crux. the onsite was not photographed.
but please chime in if someone has more info. I don't generally keep up on the mags.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
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Jul 19, 2006 - 06:01pm PT
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Hey Pete,
After you "Hardy Boys" the WOS event, maybe you can get to the bottom of this MR thing. Geraldo = PTPP
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Jul 19, 2006 - 06:03pm PT
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Caughtwithpantsdown,
Hell yes things I have soloed or highballed, some of them over nad over, are on my "do not repeat on a bad day' list.
And since all my days are bad right now I can certainly understand MR having one or two or a bunch.
This idea that you should solo stuff for cameras and witnesses is so counter to what climbing is about, especially free soloing, man, it makes me want to puke.
The idea that someone who free solos should do so on demand like a dancing bear to please the crowd is putrid to say the least.
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G_Gnome
Social climber
Tendonitis City
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Jul 19, 2006 - 06:03pm PT
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Pete, supposedly photos were taken later and he didn't do the hard pitch that day. I have known Mike forever, but even I have doubts. I just don't see any point in confronting him with it because I like having him as a friend and why f#ck that up over climbing? But I have never fallen on the vampire.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 19, 2006 - 06:07pm PT
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dirt,
I see your point, but this guy is all publicity about this. so he does the onsite w/ no photos. great. Then he comes back with a photog, does some pitches, no crux, and they are an 8 page spread in Climbing. They gave him the uber prestigous Golden Piton!
heh, the Golden Piton still cracks me up. Dude, who was climber of the year this year?
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Jul 19, 2006 - 06:07pm PT
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Dirt, how many multi-pitch, insecure 511's have you freesolo'd and then subsequently
struggled with on toprope?
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Jul 19, 2006 - 06:08pm PT
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Well, all I know is that myself and two other people watched him first hand last winter trying to solo butterfly crack at Trash Can rock here in the park. He had two of his photo catamites in tow. HE WAS USING A CRASH PAD. He took a total of 5 falls off the crux before sending it.
I really don't know if did solo RW or not, or the vampire or etc etc etc. I would think however, if you are soloing stuff that hard onsight, Butterly Crack should have been a walk in the park.
Who knows. It's all very doubtful to me. I also find it very interesting that guys like Croft don't seem to have this problem with credibility.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
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Jul 19, 2006 - 06:20pm PT
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Fuk sake Robert.... he solos sequential 5.12b onsite hundreds of feet off the deck. Not pad protected V1minus entry moves into 5.8 hands. Apples / Oranges.
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NeverSurfaced
Trad climber
Someplace F*#ked!
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Jul 19, 2006 - 06:25pm PT
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Can-o-worms, can-o-worms.
Did anyone see the flick "return to sender" with MR's ranting. Pretty humorous.
I give him credibility points based upon the haircut alone. You can’t sport that butt-rock era quaff unless you know you’re the sh#t.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Jul 19, 2006 - 06:26pm PT
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Maybe, I've seen a number of far lesser folk walk that thing. Who knows. BTW, what route/problem is that picture?
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JAK
climber
Central NC
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Jul 19, 2006 - 06:29pm PT
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Let me see if I've followed this thread correctly so far:
1) Mike Reardon is a largely well known free-soloist. (Given)
2) Someone sees Reardon climbing a fairly easy climb on TR, hangs, suddenly doubts his harder FSs.
This may come as a shock to some of you but...there are days when I want to climb for enjoyment, not climb hard. There are days where even if I'm on a route well below my grade, I might hang if I get tired simply because I don't feel like ramboing.
I would have to think you'd need something more than a weak hearsay circumstantial evidence rumor from a third party to cast doubt on the guys claim to fame.
Let me repeat that in case it didn't sink in:
hearsay circumstantial evidence rumor from a third party
You'll pardon me if I don't suddenly consider him a 5.7 climber.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Jul 19, 2006 - 06:30pm PT
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At the same token, I know, for a fact, a few people have lied about him *not* being somewhere he actually was. Also know, for a fact, that some people lied about what he was wearing when he *was* at the place he supposedly wasn't... The place, being an ascent/climb. The clothing being important due to temps, etc.. People's excuse for him not having climbed it was he wasn't/couldn't have been there and he wasn't dressed appropraitely. I think folks said he was wearing jeans or something. I could care less either way. Just saying that, assuming he has lied about some things, the lies happen on both sides.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
St. Louis
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Jul 19, 2006 - 06:31pm PT
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Last time I saw Mike, he didn't have the red 'x' on him.
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funkness
climber
Ca.
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Jul 19, 2006 - 06:35pm PT
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If a tree falls in the forest, and there's nobody there to hear it, does it make a sound?
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
St. Louis
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Jul 19, 2006 - 06:46pm PT
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Locker!!! You removed your image with the red "x". Now my oh so witty comment loses meaning. The horror.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
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Jul 19, 2006 - 06:50pm PT
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The vault contained about 23 summit registers stolen by would be Ebay guys from Sacto.
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NeverSurfaced
Trad climber
Someplace F*#ked!
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Jul 19, 2006 - 06:50pm PT
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That is quite the website he's got there. I love me!
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JAK
climber
Central NC
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Jul 19, 2006 - 07:16pm PT
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I think the only problem with your sentence is your use of the word 'suddenly.' Replace it with 'continues" and I bet the doubters here will nod in agreement.
I don't know squat about the man or his sends.
DMT
Fair enough. I don't have any meaningful information to add, other than I think it's hard to believe Mike Reardon got famous for *nothing*, so I think he's had to have done some impressive stuff somewhere that got witnessed by someone.
Either that, or he's got his PR pipe streamlined.
Be nice to hear from Bachar on this. Afterall, Reardon is one of his sponsored climbers...
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klinefelter
Boulder climber
Bishop, CA
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Jul 19, 2006 - 07:26pm PT
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I know that in soaring (hang gliding, paragliding, and sailplanes) claims of doing remarkable things, like flying long distances and gaining huge altitiude, tend to be generally disregarded unless some conditions are met. This usually involves photos, witnesses, and even documentation from a barograph.
Some of this seems kinda stupid for climbing, but if you're making a big deal outta your "remarkable things", then maybe you should at least consider some verification, like a single credible witness.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Jul 19, 2006 - 07:53pm PT
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I might be a Hardy Boy, Russ, but I have never chopped anyone's bolts and rivets, nor have I ever shat upon anyone's ropes.
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bsmith
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jul 19, 2006 - 08:19pm PT
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I guess what we are really missing is a first-hand account. Do we have a reliable witness who knows for sure it was Reardon and that he was on the Vampire and not an adjacent route or a new variation? Which pitch?
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
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Jul 19, 2006 - 08:24pm PT
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but I have never chopped anyone's bolts and rivets, nor have I ever shat upon anyone's ropes.
You don't know what your missing......
Side note: No shiiting on ropes for me either.... but the week ain't over.
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ha-ha
climber
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Jul 19, 2006 - 08:29pm PT
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who.
f*#king.
cares.
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scabang
climber
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Jul 19, 2006 - 08:30pm PT
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Postings from Werner & Crofty are noticeably absent. These guys have both class & huevos. The little waif (MR) may be a little bullshitter but so what. You do that & you dig your own grave in climbing circles. Some may be a little more creative than others when it comes down to the proof issue. Technology they call it. What peeves me are these little c*#ks@ckers on this site whose answers to such posts as:Q) "What are the conditions like on Conness"?
A) "When i solo'ed the W. Ridge last August..."
Self righteous bunch of Pricks.
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susan peplow
climber
Queen of the Sh^t talkers!
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Jul 19, 2006 - 08:31pm PT
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I don't really know if Reardon was at Tahquitz with a toprope on the Vampire or not this past weekend. And IF he was....did he hang? Caughinside asked, "Was anyone here there to witness this event?"
Since it's not confirmed I'm going to consider it garbage and a troll. But hey, I'll bite.
Hardmann Knot asked a good question, "how many multi-pitch, insecure 5.11's have you freesolo'd and then subsequently
struggled with on toprope?"
My experience has been this. When I'm leading .11's regularly those .8's are relatively easy. These day's with my giant .8 skills I can climb .5 and be confident I won't fall, hang or otherwise. Good days or not, I can send those routes with no problem.
One could argue that the same would be true with other much harder climbers. Then again I've personally seen a 5.12 climber back off of a 5.7 solo.
So what's my point?
In my opinion people who are climbing confortably at one grade should be able to EASILY climb grades well below that level.
Now with the Vampire it goes what? 11a? Does that qualify in this case as significanly below the his current level?
-Susan
p.s. I still think this thread is a troll but fake or not, it's climbing related which is a welcome change.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
one pass away from the big ditch
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Jul 19, 2006 - 08:38pm PT
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I'd just like to add another post to make sure we all sound like Rockclimbing.com
signal to noise ratio
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Blitzo
Social climber
Earth
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Jul 19, 2006 - 08:51pm PT
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I would like to say this about that and that about this!
It's a troll, but it's FUN!
Keep it going!
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bachar
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Jul 19, 2006 - 08:53pm PT
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All I can say folks is my offer still stands - If you can keep up with the boy for a day of climbing, I'll get you free rock shoes for life! (any brand...)
tic...tic...boom, jb
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Jul 19, 2006 - 09:05pm PT
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"reports are filtering in" ???
so OP, what the hell does that mean?
i have done some soloing, but it's always easy-ish, so the closest i can come to a valid comparison (hard moves unroped) is bouldering. i can say for sure that i have had problems dialed, sometimes onsighted and floated, then returned another time, another season or another year, and been stumped. big deal. if the guy is lying, he's only cheating himself. if you ae wrapped up in it, it's your loss.
geraldo- LOL
what if geraldo was out to vindicate a another guy w/ a big bad mustache?
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Jul 19, 2006 - 09:11pm PT
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HAHA, GOOD ONE John!
Are there any takers, or just talkers, so far?
Now then, Mr Hardman NOT, I am not a multi pitch free soloer, especially knott at 5.11, but I have done a LOT of highball, from 24 to 40 feet, boulder problems that are 5.11 or so, most of em with no pad, some of them on sight, and on a bad day there is NO WAY I would touch em.
For the record, I do knott give a crap about exposure, you can do the move or you can't. Falling 100 or 140 or 500 or 800 feet is all the same to me, the result will be the same.
And there is NO WAY in HELL I will ever onsight attempt a free solo of a 5.11 route, even if I get well and get back to my best shape ever, when I DID onsight some 5.11 crux moves on routes, although not free solo.
NOW, just what the fvck does that have to do with Reardon and his ability, and his good or bad days, and my ability to cut him some slack???
The ONLY dealings I have had with MR were in messages, but he did not strike me as a liar, so, until he says otherwise, I'll believe him, not some crepe hangers.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
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Jul 19, 2006 - 09:36pm PT
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Lets play the 3 Grades game.
JB is for sure the man X10, seen it with my own eyes, walks on water.... say you (jb) are doing 5.13's, take 3 off..... 5.10's after the math... you EVER yelling take on a 5.10????
Old guys we know: Doing 5.10's, so take of 3... doing 5.7's... any of them yell take???
Probably a troll on the take thing by the OP, but..... ?
Who knows.... I kinda hope he has done all that stuff in the style reported. IF not... well.... I'll still be buttering my bread on the same side come tomorrow regardless.
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bachar
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Jul 19, 2006 - 09:38pm PT
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Truth is, anybody would have a hard time keeping up with anybody else who had a fairly decent solo circuit on their "home turf". The other thing is that everybody has their own style and personality. Personally, I like the guy - he's smart, witty and fun to be around. Some folks are quiet, some are loud - that's OK. Prince is a strange guy but I still dig his music - he's a musical genius (and I don't really know him anyway). Reardon has his own style and he can definitely free solo some impressive stuff. I got a lot of respect for some of the climbs he's done. I couldn't keep up with him...
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joeblow
climber
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Jul 19, 2006 - 09:38pm PT
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"Was anyone here there to witness this event?"
Maybe somebody should ask Mike Lechlinski he saw it all.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Jul 19, 2006 - 10:26pm PT
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I see him at Stoney a lot. Their is not a chance in hell the guy would have to hang on the Vampire.
The guy is f*#king strong.
Juan
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bachar
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Jul 19, 2006 - 10:38pm PT
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I think what these people may have seen up there on the cliffs of Tahquitz Mountain was this secret new invention developed by me and Reardon called "The Emperor's New Top Rope". It's really not there but most people see it anyway.
It's really quite a device. They're pretty expensive right now but we're trying to get the cost down so that everybody can enjoy the exhilaration of free soloing without freaking out curious onlookers.
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Fluoride
Trad climber
California somewhere
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Jul 19, 2006 - 10:49pm PT
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Hahahaha.....that's pretty funny jb.
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Slakkey
Trad climber
From a Quiet Place by the Lake
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Jul 19, 2006 - 10:52pm PT
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Wow!, First people complain that there are not enough climber related topics. Then they attack the climbers that they wish they themselves could climb in the same league. I dont get it.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Jul 19, 2006 - 10:59pm PT
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I think it's the heat and our brains are fried..... Maybe, with temps like these, there should be some sort of auto-response our bodies go into, like hybernation.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jul 19, 2006 - 11:00pm PT
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So dirtineye, If I read it right, what you said was, that if he told you he was a liar you would believe him?
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
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Jul 19, 2006 - 11:06pm PT
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Spock logic bomb: "Everything I say is a lie... I'm lying"
From the Harcourt Fenton Mudd episode. (?)
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jul 19, 2006 - 11:08pm PT
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darnit Jaybro!!
Y'all sure do pay attention.
'nothin' slippin' by on your watch.
bwa.
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 19, 2006 - 11:10pm PT
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Hahahaha ......
Good one Tarbaby and Jaybro
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jul 19, 2006 - 11:10pm PT
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the statement on the other side of this paper is true.
the statement on the other side of this paper is false.
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joeblow
climber
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Jul 19, 2006 - 11:46pm PT
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"The Emperor's New Top Rope" hummm?
What we all saw that day was, a film crew, waiting to film a free solo of the Vampire. Reardon being lowered down, inspecting the route. Then hanging like laundry, screaming at the top of his lungs "TAKE" dozens of times while attempting to toprope the route. Then not soloing the route. With Mike Lechlinski holding court at the base.
You know it's been a while JB, but I don't seem to remember you using those type of tactics
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Jul 19, 2006 - 11:58pm PT
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I found the crux to be that first pitch. Pretty easy for me at the time. I found the 5.11a at the second pitch easy, but the 10d on the third way hard.
Its funny buy when I did the flakes I was able to reach past the crux and the 5.11c felt like 5.9. Ha, Ha.
But technically whats the big deal about the Vampire.
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Slakkey
Trad climber
From a Quiet Place by the Lake
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Jul 20, 2006 - 12:14am PT
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Crimpie,
I know its a little late but, do you know anyone in the legal field that deals with Slander cases? They might find some clients here on ST.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Jul 20, 2006 - 12:16am PT
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My take on it is the guy is soloing right at his limit and taking chances.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jul 20, 2006 - 12:33am PT
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I've seen him a few times at Tahquitz. I've never seen him pull anything harder than mid 10, BUT! given his confidence and abillity to scamper all over that rock, at high speed, at that level, I wouldn't doubt his ability to dig down and pull off something truely cutting edge. He also puts common sense above arbitrary route descriptions. For example avoiding sketchy slab moves when other alternatives are available. Being a master of "off route" "cheating" at a much lower level, I appreciate that.
I don't know what he's capable of or even care. There is no one else climbing at that level at Tahquitz on a regular basis though, not even close.
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Sparky
Trad climber
vagabon movin on
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Jul 20, 2006 - 12:37am PT
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RLF- (BTW, what route/problem is that picture?) I believe it's crowd pleaser on turlock at stoney.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 20, 2006 - 12:38am PT
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Hey, I wasn't there so what do I know but here's a couple points to consider
There is an 11a thin, thin slabby traverse on the Vampire. I don't care how hard you can hang on, a really hot day and delicate slab moves don't go together.
Also, Reardon has a twisted sense of humor and has remarked before about being "Witnessed" struggling on a rope while on routes he supposedly soloed. The "take, take" could have been a bit of theater.
But that wouldn't explain, if true, why he would have let down a film crew expecting him to solo the Vampire.
But, if he really couldn't do it, why would he agree to go there and be filmed in the first place.
Lots of questions, who knows?
Peace
Karl
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todd-gordon
climber
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Jul 20, 2006 - 12:40am PT
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I like Prince's music too, John.......His new album has alot of funk stuff on it...and the one song with the kick-ass guitar solos.......he is brilliant....the pants with the butt cut out WAS alittle too much, but never stopped him from playing to kind leads. We are over due for a music session, John......it's been awhile....
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Jul 20, 2006 - 12:43am PT
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It must have been so f*#king hot at Taqhuitz on Sat. I did the first pitch in the cool shade. If it was above 95F in the Sun I could see him not doing it.
Give the guy a break, he is one of the best climbers I have ever seen.
Juan
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westhegimp
Social climber
granada hills
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Jul 20, 2006 - 01:33am PT
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Two weeks ago on Fri. there was a nice thunder shower early in the day. On Sat most of the routes were dry. In fact the Vampire was dry, except where the bird feathers and other stuff had washed out of the crack. Nothing to worry about while on a rope...
soloing is different. Mike never fell on the rope. I think after cleaning the crux holds, he did all the moves clean, two times. Mike decided to wait untill Wed. The video is awesome!
Wes
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aldude
climber
Monument Manor
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Jul 20, 2006 - 01:56am PT
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JB - Prince is the comensurate showman,good singer,writer arranger and PR manipulator. But (Todd) as a guitar player (lead) he is comically over the top,affected,self indulgent and gets fuzz box tone. Sorry totally OT but they started it.
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todd-gordon
climber
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Jul 20, 2006 - 02:22am PT
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Al Dude....you may be right about Prince's guitar playing.....My point IS .......I'd rather talk about Prince than M R.........(Give him some slack... he's got short man's complex........I'm still talking about Prince..you know...)
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Elcapinyoazz
Mountain climber
Anchorage, Alaska
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Jul 20, 2006 - 02:46am PT
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But ALDUDE, have you ever seen him play piano? Fahq bro, one of my roomates had some bootleg video of a concert circa mid-90s. As a guitar player of 20 years myself, I was blown away by his playing, but when he sat down at the piano and ripped off a sick flight of the bumblebee morphing into improv and eventually into one of his songs.... HO LEE SH#T. The man is a god.
Met him once in an elevator in a building that housed the "urban contemporary" radio station in Atlanta, Georgia while on a job in '96 or thereabouts. Tiny dude. He must be 5'6" or so.
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hardman
Trad climber
love the eastern sierras
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Jul 20, 2006 - 08:51am PT
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dingus gunkie that free soloed supercrack 5.12+ then after soloing he fell on supercrack while on TR was Russ Clune.
why are so many climbers concerned about what others do? just climb and jerkoff
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Jul 20, 2006 - 09:35am PT
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NO Sh!t.
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Jul 20, 2006 - 10:20am PT
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As long as Reardon isn't fu**ing us up like Dean Potter, who cares.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville
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Jul 20, 2006 - 10:40am PT
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I've climbed a few times with Mike. I've seen him climb hard routes and easy routes. Even years ago he was out on the rocks more than anyone else I know. He practices alot. therefore, when I see pictures of him soloing hard routes I think it's really nice to see someone accomplish these things after working so hard and practicing so much.
Funny how he and potter both seem to get a little assbite when they shoot for the spotlight though...
Whatever the case, I think MR should run for office, 'cause he sure gets the press.
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joeblow
climber
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Jul 20, 2006 - 12:21pm PT
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So JIMB, I guess you don't like my screen name? haha! Too bad!
Since nobody else would, I posted a factual account(including the name of a crediable witness known to many) of what was visable from Lunch Rock over the course of one hour. After that we got bored with the circus and went climbing. It is entirely possible, as Wes stated, that Mike "did all the moves clean, two times." after we left. Hell I've seen a 13 year old girl follow and clean that route without falling. What many of us there that day found ironic was that so much wankery was required before he could solo a route he claims to have soloed three times in the past and is quite a bit easier than routes he clains to have onsight FSed. I guess Mike was lucky that there wasn't a feather or something on RW the day he claimed to have done it.
Oh yea, does your mother know you kiss her with that mouth of your? What a loser!
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JAK
climber
Central NC
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Jul 20, 2006 - 04:21pm PT
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Originally Posted By Hardman
just climb and jerkoff
Well, what do you think this thread is?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 20, 2006 - 07:51pm PT
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The more I think about it, the section of the Vampire that would like some rehearsal before a solo would be the 11a thin traverse. If I were working it a few times on TR, I'd be yelling "take" to get back over and do it again. If the belayer gave you too much slack you'd be down in unclimbable hassle land.
So I'm going to take "Reardon is vindicated (at least regarding the Vampire) by solo video someday" for a case of green Labels. Anybody want to bet against him?
Peace
Karl
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Tahoe climber
Trad climber
Austin, TX to South LakeTahoe, CA
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Jul 20, 2006 - 08:51pm PT
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If Bachar says he's a badass, I'm tempted to believe that Mike solo'd the stuff he says he has.
1) joeblow's account doesn't mean anything - at all. Who cares if you saw him toproping? I've seen 5.14 climbers toproping and taking on 5.8s. It doesn't diminish their prowess, nor their accomplishments, nor does it make their word suspect. He was probably pullin' your chain, for Pete's sake! And if there's a slabby section, in this heat!?! I'd be yelling take, too! I've definitely sent climbs on cold days that just wouldn't go on a hot, greasy day - usually friction dependent SLABS.
2) The pix in Climbing were taken in real life, no rope. He didn't do the crux that day, said the photog, but he did do some of the harder parts of the climb, with massive exposure. That makes me believe in it.
3) Who cares? If he didn't solo what he said he did, then he's a f#cking loser. If he did, that's a hell of an accomplishment. Other than that, who cares?
4) STFU, Go climb and jerkoff.
5) I'm still glad to read a climbing thread - thanks!
-Aaron
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 20, 2006 - 10:14pm PT
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There is a syndrome regarding climbers who are confident, like themselves a lot, and have a tendency to self-promote. It rubs some folks the wrong way and they diss em, don't believe em, and look for the worst in em.
Personally, I found that they are mostly a bunch that is also friendly to others, smart and fun so I have a few friends like that. Climbers that have found themselves in this category are Hans, Skinner, Reardon, PTPP, and others.
If Reardon was in the right club, and pretended to be modest and self effacing, folks wouldn't be so suspicious.
But, hey, we all have our faults. I've been surprised how quickly Dean Potter went from God to Dog in the esteem of the internet chatter. Maybe it goes both ways.
Some of these kinda competitive promoter types are sometimes found to use techniques to maximize their advantage and results, but those results can still be impressive and ahead of their time.
Who want's to lose a case of green labels? Swill talks, BS walks, (and climbs)
Peace
Karl
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426
Sport climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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Jul 20, 2006 - 10:22pm PT
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Was it the alias of "Clark Jacobs" by any chance?
JMO-After climbing with a bunch of southern boyz no one's ever heard of, I'm just not that convinced that 5.12 is really that hard for a lot of guys...at least not the Buschville fellas. Maybe that sounds like heresy but there's a ton of strong people all over that you've never met.
~on the 12 cracks I've redpointed, the pro seemed to be more the issue, more than the moves...eschew the rope and the pro and what, maybe V4, V5 moves? Throw in some "urban training" (as Reardon did on concrete, similar to Yaniro's training for the Grand Ill) and that "gnarly stem" pitch just isn't so...
It (5.12) is still tough for me though, admittedly. Specially if it's not slopes...
...speaking of hard solos in the Gunks, wasn't Franklin the first 5.13 (domestic) free solo? Antoine LeMenestral (sic) was free soloing the hardest route in Britain (Revelations, 13b? iirc) way back in the 80's so it's not like soloing mid 12 is a technical groundbreaking standard...that's part of the reason why I believe Reardon. If it is untrue, what an elaborate hoax...
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hardman
Trad climber
love the eastern sierras
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Jul 21, 2006 - 10:37am PT
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426 yes franklin on survival of the fittest
hey JAK off this thread is a bunch of fluff. people wanting to be like Mike but in no way can so they just talk doo doo.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jul 21, 2006 - 10:53am PT
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I don't really know or care what the deal is with Reardon.
For all that has been thrown around, I can't see any basis for judgment one way or the other.
I don't think the majority of people who oppose the reportage do it out of jealousy.
Sure, some people just like to pick at scabs and point a cruel finger for an odd sort of insecure fun.
Some do it out of a heightened sense of integrity; they feel they have worked hard to attain a certain mastery in something which they love and are incensed by the smell of a sham.
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SWilliams
Boulder climber
Santa Monica
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Jul 21, 2006 - 01:16pm PT
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"He could shut everyone up simply by soloing at the level he claims to be at, in front of credible, disinterested witnesses, which everyone knows should be no problem if he really was at that level."
He's hanging with JB and the two of them are soloing from Joshua Tree to Tuolomne (and both went to The Grit, with a Mexico trip planned from what I hear) with more witnesses than you can count, that's about as credible and disinterested as a climber could ever ask. Homo Joe, were't you personally invited to Joshua Tree to hang with the men, then begged off like a coward? You missed out - tic tic boom, baby, the bomb's exploding in your face like the little boy you're dating. And I was there when the man himself stopped in the gym and all you did was cry. Soloing at Tahquitz in this kind of heat after a rainstorm? If he had soloed the Vampire after all that, then I'd believe the man's crazy, but waiting for better temps, that's someone enjoying another day of climbing. Besides, haters will always be haters regardless of what he does. Happens to every climber.
Beer and free shoes from Karl and Bachar, the stakes are getting bigger. Who's putting up the lifetime of strippers?
Sean
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todd-gordon
climber
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Jul 21, 2006 - 02:28pm PT
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Mike is a unique fellow. I find it strange how many people he gets all pissed off at him.....it's unfortunate, because I do believe he's pretty much a good, fun-loving, climber who loves to climb. Whenever anyone talks of Mike on the internet, it ALWAYS moves to slander, name-calling, and disbelief....ALWAYS....guareenteed...you can set your watch to it. Mike is NOT done wowing the climbing world....be it with outrageous climbs, stunts, or claims.....It's sticky business for people who have magazines or websites;...I've had many conversations with Mike about people who slander him in print or on the net;.....he is a person with feelings, and has a beautiful wife and lovely child who sometimes end up getting slandered too. Listening to Mike talk about lawsuits and fisticuffs is NOT my idea of a good time. I, personally, chose to have nothing to do with any of this;....I am a climber, teacher, and X3 dad now. I have a wesite (joshuatreeclimb.com) which USED to have people who posted mean and disrespectful stuff about Mike and his antics. I now have a Mike-free site, for reasons I feel are obvious to me and my lifestyle, and the person I am. Most people respect this, and I am thankful for that. I do try to be kind, supportive, and respectful to all climbers and people in general. It's tough being a climbing "celebrity"...especially a colorful, mysterious, funky, and kooky as Mike is. My suggestion, at this point is......let him do his thing, WHATEVER it is, sit back and watch, ease up on the slander (Most of which has already been said MANY times already), and enjoy the show. Yeah; alot of people don't believe this or that;....try not to get too worked up about this....it aint' going away, and don't we have enough stuff in our lives to piss us off about? Same for Mike....he's got enough things to get worked about;... he don't need YOU to add to it.....Let's let wars, gas prices, our jobs, and city traffic piss us off. Most importantly, Mike's wife and his child don't need the trickle-down angst that is generated by climbers who can't handle Mike's climbing style, his mouth , or amazing feats or claims. I wish him well, and hope that , in his future, good vibes , good climbs, and good feelings can be generated by this amazingly talented and energetic dude. I think we aint' seen nothing yet.....he's just getting warmed up.... with his climbing, his antics, his spray, and his claims......
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marty(r)
climber
beneath the valley of ultravegans
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Jul 21, 2006 - 03:01pm PT
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Todd said, " I do try to be kind, supportive, and respectful to all climbers and people in general."
AMEN to that. If someone was stealing your car you'd be offering them gas for the drive. Topshelf, man!
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Elcapinyoazz
Mountain climber
Anchorage, Alaska
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Jul 21, 2006 - 03:46pm PT
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Don't know the man, don't care about his claims one way or another.
But Todd, you seem to step on your dick everytime you launch into one of these format challenged, incoherent rantings.
"Mike's wife and his child don't need the trickle-down angst that is generated by climbers who can't handle Mike's climbing style, his mouth "
If his running off at the mouth is having a "trickle-down" effect on his family, perhaps he should shut said mouth. You can't take sides in an issue like this because it takes two to tango baby. You put all the blame on people who bad mouth him, yet you seem to ignore his own complicity in the matter. By purposely putting yourself into the public arena, promoting yourself etc, you put have some responsibility for the effects that publicity/notoriety may have on you and/or your family. Ask any politician, movie star, etc.
It doesn't make the detractors right or good, but when you take that step into the public arena, particularly Reardon knowing full well as a hollywood guy what that entails, then your choice has as much to do with any "angst" that the family feels.
FWIW (nothing), I think the guy did what he said he did. I know plenty of climbers who are physically capable of pulling it off and I'd give 10:1 that none of you have ever heard of any of them.
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Sandy
climber
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Jul 21, 2006 - 04:19pm PT
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ha ha.
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todd-gordon
climber
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Jul 21, 2006 - 04:33pm PT
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Remember....we cannot control Mike, what he does, says, or claims to do. We can control ourselves. Saying that Mike should do this or do that is all fine, but in the end, he seems to do as he pleases. Now we must think what WE can do OURSELVES........I don't think Mike is going to change dramatically,..... it's time for us to step up and get control over what WE can control; that is OUR reaction to Mike's climbing, style, spray, and claims.
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Bart Fay
Social climber
Redlands, CA
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Jul 21, 2006 - 04:52pm PT
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>>> I know plenty of climbers who are physically capable of pulling it off...
Onsight FS Romantic Warrior. I guess 'physically' is the important distinction here.
Know anybody simply 'capable' of pulling it off ?
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Jul 21, 2006 - 05:12pm PT
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You know what (I think) would be just thigh-slappingly hilarious....?
If Lois was actually Michael, having at it with us all. Think about it....If the solos are tall tales, or even if they're not, LEB as his alterego would be the pefect symbiotic personna....
Just thinking..... IReading some of the LEB post DO seem funnier, if you picture a long-haired blondy MR pecking away at the keyboard, donch think?
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jul 21, 2006 - 05:19pm PT
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stop that happy g.
at once.
this is serious guy stuff.
you know knott where you tread.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Jul 21, 2006 - 05:20pm PT
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I may know knott, and I am highly glad to be female, if that is what saves me!
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jul 21, 2006 - 05:22pm PT
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I'll never look at an LEB post in quite the same way as I once did.
Knope!
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goatboy smellz
climber
shakedown street
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Jul 21, 2006 - 05:44pm PT
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we should not always believe what we see
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jul 21, 2006 - 05:51pm PT
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There is no way Lois is Reardon.
But Reardon might be Lois.
I need a drink.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Jul 21, 2006 - 05:55pm PT
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heh heh heh...
Sorry Buster. I hope the image isn't going to be like a bubble gum pop song playing over, and over, and over.....
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jul 21, 2006 - 06:00pm PT
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'Better make it a double.
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G_Gnome
Social climber
Tendonitis City
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Jul 21, 2006 - 06:06pm PT
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Geez Happy, Mike can be a wordy mfer. Now you got me thinking... and I am thinking I'm scared.
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guyman
Trad climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Jul 21, 2006 - 06:08pm PT
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Tar..set me up 2 please....it's a hot friday and I could use a cold one now..
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Roger Breedlove
Trad climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Jul 21, 2006 - 06:14pm PT
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Finally read the whole thing, top to bottom. Glad to see it is settled.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Jul 21, 2006 - 06:15pm PT
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I don't need a drink, but I could sure use one of those sh#t-eating grin emoticons right about now....
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jul 21, 2006 - 06:17pm PT
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Yup,
Class dismissed.
Case closed.
Have a nice weekend all!
And don't leave wads of tape or swizzle sticks lying about at the base of the boulders.
And check yer shoelaces before ya head up any highballs,
Shorty T may have tied them teh gether...
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jul 21, 2006 - 06:34pm PT
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If Lois = MR and Lois = Juanito then
Juanito = MR
Oh oh...
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426
Sport climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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Jul 21, 2006 - 06:35pm PT
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What Tar, climbing shoes have laces?
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Ksolem
Trad climber
LA, Ca
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Jul 21, 2006 - 06:54pm PT
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I know Juanito. And I know MR. To paraphrase Lloyd Bentsen:
One thing I can tell you is that Juanito is no MR (and equally the other way around.)
Now, as to which one is LEB? Of the two only Juanito could have the tenacity to maintain that persona for all this time. MR's ADD would kick in and that would be the end of it...
To the topic, I'm going to believe Mike. He sat with me at the campfire last winter, we ate some food and drank some wine, he eyeballed me and told me the whole story. Then, I've seen him climb some too.
Y'all doubters have some legit questions, but the OP on this thread is not one of them. The decision to tr, solo, hang or whatever at any given moment is just that: in the moment.
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guyman
Trad climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Jul 21, 2006 - 07:17pm PT
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I need a cigerette.....after that one.
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maculated
Trad climber
San Luis Obispo, CA
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Jul 21, 2006 - 07:24pm PT
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Bunnies!
I'm pretty sure Lois is just Lois. Keep trying though. Should start a thread - it will go just as long.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
LA, Ca
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Jul 21, 2006 - 08:38pm PT
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Dude, you look pretty stupid when you say sh*t like that. I said earlier I've seen MR climb a few things. So have some other folks, like JB (will you agree he has cred?) Lots of people have tried to follow him around. Many of them could really use free shoes for life. When are you gonna step up?
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 21, 2006 - 08:40pm PT
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Hey Joe
Whatcha doing with that keyboard in your hand ......?
It's all right man. Take it easy man, common, ..... you'll live through it :-)
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Jul 21, 2006 - 08:44pm PT
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Author:
Sandy
climber
From: Here's a post about Michael Reardon that is not up for debate. One that I think is based purely in fact. I don't consider myself a jealous hater, see what you think-
MR is either:
a) an enormous liar
b) someone who intentionally and consistently takes enormous, exorbitant risks (beyond just about anything I’ve ever heard of, in any area of life) *with a wife and young child at home*
c) both of the above
Whichever answer is correct, he gets zero respect from me.
I felt the same way about Dan Osman. His daughter is growing up fatherless. The defining feature of his life, in my eyes, is not that he freesoloed Atlantis with 2 broken ribs. Big deal, superstar. You left a daughter fatherless for no reason.
Reardon's child must grow up knowing that her dad is either A or B (or C) above."""
BWahahahahaahh!
YOU think you can make serious logical errors and claim your post is not up for debate??
THE flaw is in point 2.
For someone who free solos at the 5.12 level consistently and lives, they are capable of climbing MUCH harder. 5.12 is probably no that much risk for Reardon, even though it woudl be extremely perilous for most of us.
I have seen a seriously good climber go up 5.10 like it was nothing, running the pitch out until he got to the 5.11 part, and call it casual climbing. HE could easily solo 5.10, while most of us would not dram of this.
So your 'pure fact' is not fact at all, merely YOUR opinion.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jul 21, 2006 - 09:08pm PT
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Hi joe,
How's trix in LA?
Hey Coz!
Haven't seen your sad sack fer ages.
wuz up?
luv,
Tarbousier,
aka,
Mr Potatoehead to you,
or just Roy.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jul 21, 2006 - 09:42pm PT
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I'm just too darn shiftless
To post this up under an alias.
Too busy to get a yahoo acct.
Not creative enuff to lay out another handle.
So here goes:
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westhegimp
Social climber
granada hills
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Jul 21, 2006 - 09:49pm PT
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SWilliams,
Bwahahaha! That was the best post Ive read. O yeea!
"Homo Joe, were't you personally invited to Joshua Tree to hang with the men, then begged off like a coward? You missed out - tic tic boom, baby, the bomb's exploding in your face like the little boy you're dating. And I was there when the man himself stopped in the gym and all you did was cry."
" Mike Reardon invites Steve Edwards & Joe Hedge to J Tree " But you didn't show.
HJ or JH You could have seen for your self exactly what you claim to want to see. Even though you arnt a 'credible, or a disinterested witness' Troll
Wes
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 21, 2006 - 11:42pm PT
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Hedge's question is entirely rational and reasonable.
Soloing 5.12 is not all that reasonable and rational though.
I'd like the simple answer too but have to admit, back when I used to solo more, I wouldn't want anybody around for the harder and sketchier sends. Too much need to focus and not have pressure of eyes on me. Didn't matter at all on the easier stuff.
Peace
karl
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Kevin Daniels
climber
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Jul 21, 2006 - 11:49pm PT
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mike Reardon
kevin daniels here. lets grab warren and go climbing.
kevin daniels
714 642 5354
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westhegimp
Social climber
granada hills
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Jul 22, 2006 - 03:09am PT
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Joe,
I'm at Malibu Creek tomorrow morning(early). Come down and Ill tell you in person.
Wes
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mso4 Man
Trad climber
Western MA
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Jul 22, 2006 - 08:56am PT
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Dingus to answer your first ? about who solo'd supercrack and then fell on TR the next time? It was Russ Clune.
peace
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bob d'antonio
climber
boulder, co
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Jul 22, 2006 - 11:05am PT
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This thread is bullshit!! Get a life.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Jul 22, 2006 - 12:26pm PT
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bob d'antonio wrote:
This thread is bullshit!! Get a life.
But it's such entertaining bullshít.
Please shoot me if I ever get a "life".
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jul 22, 2006 - 12:47pm PT
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LOL hardman knotty:
that is some funny stuff.
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westhegimp
Social climber
granada hills
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Jul 22, 2006 - 03:51pm PT
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joe,
Just got back from MC, missed you! In the past I've posted a bunch of stuff I've seen Mike do. To you I'm not credible or a disinterested witness. That is why you were invited to come and check it out for yourself. But you always have some lame excuse.
Wouldn't just soloing at the level he claims to be at in front of credible, disinterested witnesses pretty much answer everyone's questions?
At least two things wrong with your post.
1. Your an idiot/ troll who will never be satisfied.
2. There isn't anyone 'disinterested'
Wes
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jul 22, 2006 - 07:22pm PT
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Hey Coz, don't be a stranger!
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 23, 2006 - 01:19am PT
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Although my case of beer on on Reardon sending the Vampire, I do think Hedge's line of questioning is reasonable.
If somebody hasn't witnessed Mikey solo hard stuff, so what? Say so and that's just a data point. Being evasive about it is kinda annoying like all the other countless times these internet chats ignore the pressing question that are like an elephant in the room.
Peace
karl
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Anastasia
Trad climber
Near a mountain, CA
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Jul 23, 2006 - 04:51am PT
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Alright! What the F*ck is everyone's problem? One fact stands in my mind, John Bachar has dared that if one of you can follow Reardon for a day, he will give you a LIFETIME SUPPLY OF FREE CLIMBING SHOES!!! WHAT! NO ONES TAKING!!!! WHAT THE F*CK!
DUDE! WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT YOU! If you are not taking because you lack knowing where to show up for a chance to follow Reardon, I am sure you can e-mail Bachar through Acopa and they will remedy the situation...
Still no takers! Is it because of SCHOOL/WORK/LIFE?! Then when do you climb? Never? ARE YOU JUST A SH#T TALKER?!
The fact is I've seen Reardon solo hard routes in JTree. I respect him. Yes, I also call him my friend and that is reason enough for me to fight for him... What, you still can't understand why?
I'm getting a headache from all this shallowness.
-------------------------------
P.S.
Hey Wes, I still owe you a beer for baby-sitting me... E-mail me if you ever have free time before I move to Mammoth.
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Degaine
climber
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Jul 23, 2006 - 05:51am PT
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I believe Mike, in the few interactions I have had with him, I have never had any reason to doubt him, but I am usually one to give people the benefit of the doubt. Plus, my ego and self worth do not rely on Mike failing, so I have no personal interest in doubting his claims or slandering him on the Internet.
As to answering the questions posed, aside from the Internet drama that draws us here as so astutely pointed out by Mr. Knott, who cares? Is Mike getting press time that some of you think you deserve instead? Is it that he has a personal website with photos and text of certain outings? Lot's of people do. In addition, he seems to be damned if he does, damned if he does not: talking about any accomplishments makes him a showboat/sprayer whatever, and if he does not show proof, then he's apparently a liar until proven otherwise. How many of you over the years have posted that one does not talk about one's soloing?
Kevin,
I got Warren to go climbing at the gym about a year ago, see if you and Mike can convince him to get back outside.
Cheers.
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Tommy
Big Wall climber
London
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Jul 23, 2006 - 07:27am PT
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I was around when MR visited the UK recently (Sheffield) and saw him climbing firsthand. Before I met him, I felt quite inspired by a lot of his climbing exploits and was prepared to be impressed if I ever saw him climbing in person.
Well, to honest, I thought he was crap (relatively). Quite surprised me really. Yes, he's a pretty funny guy, nice personality and has a VERY smooth climbing style, BUT.... he's just not that strong. I've free soloed quite often around the 5.12 mark (on routes I have wired, mostly) but I don't think he's strong enough to be climbing what he claims (unless everything is totally wired).
Anyway, I'm sure that he enjoyed climbing here without loads of people who instantly recognised him, as it quite stressful thinking that you always have to perform. I would be interested to hear if he sent anything hard on his trip to the UK.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Salt Lake
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Jul 23, 2006 - 09:28am PT
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I'm not part of the California climbing scene and don't know Mr Reardon so my opinions count for less, in the core question, than those who climb there and know the players in the drama. I'm amazed by the attention that has been focused on his free soloing. Climbers free solo in the Rocky Mountains, too, but there is much less fanfare associated with their feats.
Controversy can become addictive. I hope I don't forget to eat, sleep, feed the cat, water the plants or talk to my boyfriend since I became wrapped up in this back and forth argument. But what is the argument really about, when you strip away the venom, sarcasm,name calling etc. ?
I obviously don't have the ability to compete with Mr Reardon or the credentioals to challenge his claims. But I have to agree with Karl Baba, that it is reasonable for local climbers to expect some tangible information about what SPECIFICALLY he has done free solo. Especially since Mr Reardon and his friends have promoted the legend. Some are so wrapped up in the legend that they're not analyzing or attempting to explain it in concrete terms.
Reputable people say he soloing a grade (or two) above established standard. I am inclined to believe what they say is true.
If a person prefers to climb anonymously and keep his or her accomplishments to themself, that is their prerogative. But can you have it both ways? If you choose to promote yourself and allow your friends to promote your legend, isn't it reasonable for the climbing public to ask for a tangible description of the feats? That's all.
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Degaine
climber
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Jul 23, 2006 - 01:37pm PT
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Jennie,
I actually think it is very unreasonable that any climbers expect anything from Michael. Other than internet drama (which I agree is very entertaining, and something I'm so easily sucked in to), I'm really not sure how any of this has an effect on their lives or their climbing in any tangible way. All the whiners in this thread have had ample opportunity to ask him these question in person and have chosen not to. Hell, they probably know how to get a hold of him or someone they consider to be "credible" but decide instead to complain about him on the internet.
He's not pounding pins or drilling bolts where he shouldn't, quite honestly all of these discussions here or on rc.com seems like, well for lack of a better expression, a bunch of dick waving. Those who are crying for proof additional to what Michael has said, to what others have confirmed or to what photographs have shown, don't like him anyway and will never be satisfied. They seem either disappointed that their heros of yesteryear did not do it first, or that they did not do it first. Those who like the guy or have nothing against him take his word for it or don't care.
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Anastasia
Trad climber
Near a mountain, CA
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Jul 23, 2006 - 02:03pm PT
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The fact is everyone likes to point fingers. Now if they would just back up what they say and follow MR for one day to prove his lack of skill... If they can prove MR is not worthy of his reputation, "I would bow down and agree."
--Yet if no one is going to take John Bachar's offer, then all of you should bow down and admit that MR is the real thing.---
Then again, that might be too hard on people's egos. I think many will never believe in Reardon no matter what proof is given because it would prove them wrong.
I hope that this idea is false because I want to believe climbers are better then that. I want to believe that many of us like to support each other. I like to believe that most of us love seeing someone do something great and new because it is fun! We don't take it as a personal challenge against our own capabilities, I like to think we take it is a example of what "we can all do." I think MR is just showing us the way, now how many of you will take it?
Will one of you win the challenge of shoes for a lifetime? Can you? I am not afraid of being proven wrong...
Are you?
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Degaine
climber
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Jul 23, 2006 - 02:28pm PT
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Unfortunately, Anastasia, many climbers do look at others' accomplishments as a personal challenge against their own abilities.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 23, 2006 - 02:34pm PT
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Hey, nobody's willing to risk the cost of a case of beer much less their own skins betting against Reardon.
That said, Bachar is right in admitting that following somebody around on their wired solo circuit would be hard for anybody. A fair challenge would be an onsight solo duel at a mutually acceptable area. Reardon hasn't climbed much in Yosemite so how about there? He can stay at my place. I'll take pictures if I'm in shape enough to even hike fast enough.
and that said, it would be sad if some tragedy emerged from a contest like that. Sooner or later we'll have a video (or not)
You don't have to be a 5.13+ climber to solo 5.12. Just a bit solid on your grade, solid in your composure, and otherwise whacked.
So my "nobody-dies" offer is still good. Reardon will prove that he can solo the Vampire with it's tiny slab 5.11 moves, within a year or I buy you case of green labels!
Kinda reminds me of Mountain Man's thread about Rachel and the DDT. He says it's so safe that the inventor used to drink it but none of the folks who say DDT is safe are willing to drink it to back up their claims!
peace
Karl
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Anastasia
Trad climber
Near a mountain, CA
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Jul 23, 2006 - 02:50pm PT
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Oh, a lifetime supply of shoes which go for $100.00 a pop is too cheap for you? Let me do the numbers... I usually go through a pair of shoes at least every four months... I also usually have at least two pairs that are designed for different climbs. Plus, I plan to be climbing until I'm dead or crippled...
That means that if I stay climbing until my seventies like Bob Kamps, that would be $24,000 dollars worth of shoes in modern day cost...
Your are silly if you can't realize how cool that would be to earn such a deal.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Anyway...
Bob Kamps once told me that there is no climber greater then another. Our bodies are each different in height, flexibility, center of balance, strength ratio etc. We only can truly climb against ourselves. To climb against someone else is to never really face and discover our own greatness.
Such large concerns and feelings of anger towards Reardon shows that people are not focusing on what really is important. They should instead focus on themselves and see what they can do that is wonderful. They should know that they are the true center that can change the world. The energy they are wasting on Reardon could be instead used to out do him and others. Then again, some people rather complain and argue about greatness then achieve it. Some people watch life happen then live it. That makes me sad...
Like I have said, I wish someone would take the challenge... That would be cool since it will be about climbing instead of negative talk. I can respect that.
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Anastasia
Trad climber
Near a mountain, CA
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Jul 23, 2006 - 03:18pm PT
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This is not a boxing ring against DP and Reardon... This is climbing! It is not about who can beat who! Climbing is about what a person is able to do on the rocks which makes it astounding!
Anyway, DP has his own problems after his stint with climbing Delicate Arches... Apparently many people don't agree on what he is free to do. Plus the fact he did have a film crew to document the incident... Enough said about his intent and purpose with self promotion.
The fact is self promoting is what climbing legends do! It is never good enough to just be good, you have to be able to sell yourself too.
This proves that no one is perfect, no one is the greatest climber ever that needs to be worshiped and glorified.
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Anastasia
Trad climber
Near a mountain, CA
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Jul 23, 2006 - 03:22pm PT
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"Smiling."
I don't resole... I like buying new shoes for it keeps my feet from stinking.
I'm a girl so things like that matter to me.
As for dialing in my footwork. I am always working on that... I always need to improve myself.
What is interesting about your footwork comment is...
You needed to put me down.
Wow, beating up on girls...
Astounding.
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Tahoe climber
Trad climber
Austin, TX to South LakeTahoe, CA
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Jul 23, 2006 - 03:34pm PT
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Look, anastasia, there is something the needs to be clarified, here.
For starters, I actually believe and respect Mike, and think personally that 1) Mike has no motive to lie, and 2) if Bachar vouches for him, that's enough for me.
But here's the rub:
Measuring dicks with Mike ain't going to solve the problem.
Bachar's challenge is interesting, maybe even fascinating, but largely irrelevant to whether Mike has soloed what he says he has. So all of your capitalized challenges and name calling isn't going to prove Mike's capability.
You'd be doing him more of a favor if you'd just rationally state what you've seen him solo, and/or why you believe in him in the first place.
Anything else adds to the naysayers' suspicions.
Same goes for the Wes dude.
There are two separate issues that you seem to be lumping into one.
1) Did Mike in fact solo what he says he has
2) Can anyone "keep up" with him soloing now
-Aaron
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Tahoe climber
Trad climber
Austin, TX to South LakeTahoe, CA
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Jul 23, 2006 - 03:34pm PT
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Look, anastasia, there is something the needs to be clarified, here.
For starters, I actually believe and respect Mike, and think personally that 1) Mike has no motive to lie, and 2) if Bachar vouches for him, that's enough for me.
But here's the rub:
Measuring dicks with Mike ain't going to solve the problem.
Bachar's challenge is interesting, maybe even fascinating, but largely irrelevant to whether Mike has soloed what he says he has. So all of your capitalized challenges and name calling isn't going to prove Mike's capability.
You'd be doing him more of a favor if you'd just rationally state what you've seen him solo, and/or why you believe in him in the first place.
Anything else adds to the naysayers' suspicions.
Same goes for the Wes dude.
There are two separate issues that you seem to be lumping into one.
1) Did Mike in fact solo what he says he has
2) Can anyone "keep up" with him soloing now
-Aaron
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James
climber
A tent in the redwoods
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Jul 23, 2006 - 03:46pm PT
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There are factual accounts of this guy soloing the gnar in the Needles and then tripping on his tongue later in the day. Whatever. This slander is making me sleepy. Anyone want to toss some tips out about how to spit game to one of the slinky hotties up here in Canadia?
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Anastasia
Trad climber
Near a mountain, CA
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Jul 23, 2006 - 03:48pm PT
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Your right,
Reardon's DVD is coming out... Enough said.
Time for me to get myself a beer and remind myself not to take you guys seriously.
I know that time always reveals the truth. It is going to be fun to watch when this thing does get settled.
Wishing everyone the best.
AF
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klinefelter
Boulder climber
Bishop, CA
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Jul 23, 2006 - 04:16pm PT
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"Reardon's DVD is coming out... Enough said."
Indeed.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Jul 23, 2006 - 04:23pm PT
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As I've said before, the footage of MR on EBGB's is badass, and speaks for itself.
Falling from anywhere on that route would seem as fatal as The Vampire.
So how 'bout some footage cruising through the crux of the The Vampire?
And why knott bust out a quick lap on Equinox, Beaver, or Moonbeam Crack?
Didn't Bachar say Equinox was "no big deal"? I thought that was an astonishing statement,
and I would love to see footage of anyone cruising a lap free-solo for the video camera.
For the record, I am not a Readon basher. But if dude is going to self-promote,
I think he should step up the videography a notch––and shut everyone the fuçk up!
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 23, 2006 - 06:20pm PT
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While we're at it, I'd like to emphatically state that Batman is a poser who is always yarding up on the rope. (Probably because he doesn't actually have super powers but needs technology to make up for it)
Spiderman generates his own cord and solos (unlike Batman who always has some "boy wonder" watching his back side)
Superman is a foreigner but pretends to be all-american mid-west. BS! He doesn't even pretend to climb!
I think they really don't do their own stunts either. They are liars who use computer generated images to appear larger than life.
Reardon works around hollywood doesn't he? Who knows if we'll really believe his dvd?
Peace
karl
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Richard Large
climber
where you least expect
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Jul 23, 2006 - 07:48pm PT
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I believe MR really DID win the Tour de France.
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Roger Breedlove
Trad climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Jul 23, 2006 - 08:09pm PT
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I want to propose a new game. One that everyone can play.
The person who is it announces to everyone that they didn't do such and such a route, in such and such a style. Then all their friends (and everyone else who wants to chime in) makes vague statements that seem to say that they didn't see him not do the route in question, but no one can produce any proof, like video footage.
Then every one else can start the slander. Should be fun.
I think Karl should go first. So, Karl, what do you claim knot to have climbed and in what style? Once we get the bugs worked out, we should ask John and Werner to be 'it'. Maybe we can even get Peter to join.
TL,C (or S)
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bachar
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Jul 23, 2006 - 08:44pm PT
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All right already....free shoes and free underwear for life if you can follow Reardon for a day...you're gonna need it - I'll even throw in some free pairs of "Depends" as well.
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Roger Breedlove
Trad climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Jul 23, 2006 - 08:51pm PT
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Funny, John. Your are forcing my hand, here, you know?
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Richard Large
climber
where you least expect
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Jul 23, 2006 - 08:59pm PT
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I free soloed Aunt Fanny's Pantry once but the only witness was one of those "designer rat" golden mantled ground squirrels. Does that count?
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bob d'antonio
climber
boulder, co
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Jul 23, 2006 - 09:02pm PT
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JB wrote: All right already....free shoes and free underwear for life if you can follow Reardon for a day...you're gonna need it - I'll even throw in some free pairs of "Depends" as well.
You're in for a long wait.
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westhegimp
Social climber
granada hills
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Jul 23, 2006 - 11:24pm PT
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Test, test,
If I say I saw Mike solo Blood of Christ @ JT what would you say?
If I say I saw Mike solo Burning Bush @ JT what would you say?
If I say I saw Mike solo Burning Bush three times in an hour, (once Mojo) what would you say?
If I say I see Mike solo more than 50 laps almost every time out what would you say?
This is just a test.
Wes
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 23, 2006 - 11:26pm PT
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Hey, I thought this was slander Mikey thread?
But, for the record, I've never climbed Astroman or even Mortalman. You could probably measure me and the Harding Slot if you wanted proof.
Peace
karl
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Ksolem
Trad climber
LA, Ca
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Jul 23, 2006 - 11:49pm PT
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Joe,
Sorry not to respond sooner - I was out climbing for a bit. Hey man I apologize about the "you make yourself look stupid" stuff. Bad on me for that.
Last thing I saw MR solo was scary poodles in josh, not a real stretch for him but kind of a sketchy thing if you know what I mean. I've seen lots of climbers solo stuff and I count them in two groups. The ones who are fun to see and the one's where you just want to walk away. This one nice to see. Solid, balletic and expressing confidence and pleasure in each move.
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brett kassell
Trad climber
san jose, ca
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Jul 24, 2006 - 01:47am PT
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i'll give $1000 to the next person that solos Astroman. John? Michael? Werner? Peter and Dean are excluded. it must be done in 2006 and you have to let me know when so i can watch.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Jul 24, 2006 - 02:11am PT
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Man am I tired. I got up at 3am, drove to the valley of soloed the Astroman. Boy are my f*#king arms tired.
I expect that money ASAP!
If it is not here tommorrow I will be sending my boys out to visit with you!!!!!!!!!
Juan
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Jul 24, 2006 - 02:40am PT
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Juan, shut DeFuca up.
Brett said to let him know in advance...
But since I've had a tequila or three, I will match Brett's offer:
Solo Astroman, let us know in advance, and I will also pay $1000.00 US.
That's gotta be a way-the-fuçk easier challenge than flashing Romantic Warrior!!!
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Roger Breedlove
Trad climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Jul 24, 2006 - 08:37am PT
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Karl, I don’t believe you. I think that you have soloed Astroman and for reasons of pure egotism you are denying it. My logic:
1. Way sorrier ass climbers than you have claimed not to have soloed Astroman, but no body has every proved it.
2. There is no way that you are a bigger man than Croft and he got through the Harding Slot. He never denied it either.
3. Of the thousand of pitches that you could have not done in the Valley, you claim to have not done only 13 of them. And you live there? Come on!
4. I am still waiting for the video or your ‘friends’ to finally come out of the woodwork and support your ‘unbelievable’ claims.
TL,S--Roger
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Anastasia
Trad climber
Near a mountain, CA
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Jul 24, 2006 - 09:25am PT
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Oh Karl,
I've seen him do some really scary sh#t... If I swear on my life's blood he's real, would you believe me and at least come watch with me when I pass out the invite?
Then would you give the guy a break???
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Levy
Big Wall climber
So Cal
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Jul 24, 2006 - 11:30am PT
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This is getting SO TIRED!! Unless some new info or proof positive comes to life, there will forever be some doubt about MR's claimed solos. The pics Mark Niles took are not conclusive & I submit to you fellow climbers that they appear to be photoshoped.
Want proof? Check out the pics & in the one of him on the diagonal 12a crack(campus traverse) his shorts are black where the shade is but they're more of a charcoal grey on the back where the sunlight is directly shining on them. In the pic of the 11d stemming corner however, the shorts are the same color throughout even though the sunlight is shining on them. Why are they not charcoal grey in the sunlight like in the other picture. The sunlight is on him so it's not that he was in the shade. It looks to me & many others like the harness was photoshoped out of the picture. How come there's no chalk on his arms, legs or face. When I climb a few pitches I usually have chalk everywhere on my exterior. My thighs, arms & face usually bear witness to a casual brush with a chalk laden hand, and most people I've observed fare the same way. MR looks a bit too clean to have just soloed a death fall multi-pitch route.
Enough. Unless some new revelation or pics appear these claims will always be viewed with some suspicion. If he steps up and does Astroman or Rostrum with witnesses or video this will be put to rest. Soloing 40 foot routes at Joshua Tree or Malibu Creek are just not even close to the same level of commitment as the Romantic Warrior.
Mike, Wes & the rest of your group, let's see it! The climbing community awaits what comes next.
Levy
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Jul 24, 2006 - 12:11pm PT
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Nice work Levy. NOT.
The 'climbing community' may await whatever, but no climber I know cares, or would want to goad someone into proving anything about their climbing when the risk is death.
This 'climbing community', that demands of proof of adventures of other climbers instead of seeking their own, that would rather piss and moan and carp than anything else, that sounds most like a batch of spoiled, sour, has-been wanna-bees, apparently has no sense of climbing OR community.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 24, 2006 - 12:21pm PT
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Since Brett and Knott have ponied up, I guess the bribing can go both ways.
I'll give a case of green labels to the next guy who solos Astroman.
But all you slackers who don't solo Astroman now owe me just one green label.
Makes sense to me.
Peace
karl
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Jul 24, 2006 - 12:25pm PT
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Spurt In Eye - since you don't care, why are you reading (and posting in, no less) this thread?
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sketchy
Trad climber
Vagrant
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Jul 24, 2006 - 12:39pm PT
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I checked reardons site and was unable to find the pictures of RW. Anyone mind posting the pics or a link?
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10b4me
Trad climber
California
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Jul 24, 2006 - 12:53pm PT
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Croft says his hardest day ever, IIRC, was 6 formations in a day (Middle/Higher Cath, Sentinel, Half Dome and Royal Arches/North Dome) which is about 80 pitches...He also went balls-out at Arapiles once and did 80 pitches. Sorry, but your bro is not Peter Croft on his best day
that's for dang sure
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Jul 24, 2006 - 01:15pm PT
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"Way sorrier ass climbers than you have claimed not to have soloed Astroman, but no body has every proved it."
LOL
Levy-
if you are gonna spout about some suposedly photoshopped pics, you gotzta post them up- or at least post a link, most of us around here aren't interested enough in this playground squabble to seek it out, so put the smack on a platter please, gracias.
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Murf
climber
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Jul 24, 2006 - 01:17pm PT
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The 'climbing community' may await whatever, but no climber I know cares, or would want to goad someone into proving anything about their climbing when the risk is death.
I think that speaks more to the climbers you know that anything else.
This 'climbing community', that demands of proof of adventures of other climbers instead of seeking their own, that would rather piss and moan and carp than anything else, that sounds most like a batch of spoiled, sour, has-been wanna-bees, apparently has no sense of climbing OR community.
Spurt, you couldn't keep up with Levy's dog.
I always figured that the whole thing was some sort of psychology experiment funded by DARPA or something.
Regardless of perceived spite from other climbers, and avid support from a small group, some things are clear.
There is an incredible lack of "money shots". In a day and age where I can download hours of video of boulder sequences, Indian Creek plug-n-chug, etc, it would seem that someone who has produced multiple DVD's could get a few minutes of uninterupted video footage.
Secondly, for someone who has coined a phrase for his detractor's ( Anonymous S?? Slanderer's (ASS) or some such ), it would seem that not much effort has gone into quieting them. All it would take is soloing Vampire in front of 1 or 2 people ( I can think of 10 folks who would jump at the chance) would suffice.
So what are we left with? Either he can't or he won't repeat these things for an audience.
Why should he you ask? If he smiled and never mentioned his accomplishments, let his friends brag if they wished, and kept it on the down-low, he wouldn't have to. He brought it out into the open, and created the stage for this show. I suspect he enjoys it.
At the bare minimum, it makes for good drama...
Murf
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scuffy b
climber
Chalet Neva-Care
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Jul 24, 2006 - 01:41pm PT
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I'm going to try to step up to Roger's challenge.
It was in 1977. I felt really good because earlier I had led
_ ___ with RRR3. So I went over to the tunnels and
found my way to 5 and Dime and climbed on up to the start of
the thin section. And looked. And stared. And climbed back down to the ground.
It was ON SIGHT FLASH style that I DID NOT climb 5 and Dime that day--On Sight with No Foot Slips and No Gobies. I was not even breathing hard when I got back to my car after not soloing what would have been probably a pretty good accomplishment.
I have a slightly more complicated non-solo of something in JT
but I have to sort out the confusing details.
Any others?
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Gene
climber
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Jul 24, 2006 - 01:46pm PT
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Gene
climber
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Jul 24, 2006 - 01:50pm PT
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Roger Breedlove
Trad climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Jul 24, 2006 - 01:54pm PT
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That looks dangerous. If he were to fall, he might bite his tongue off.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Jul 24, 2006 - 02:15pm PT
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When I see photo's like that I think mental illness!
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scuffy b
climber
Chalet Neva-Care
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Jul 24, 2006 - 02:18pm PT
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I went to solo Touch and Go. Everything went fine. Then I saw a picture of Touch and Go and things just didn't look right. I'm pretty sure I was within a few hundred yards, anyway. Well, within a couple formations. I'm pretty sure I was in the right part of the Park, broadly speaking.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 24, 2006 - 02:30pm PT
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Yeah, I detect signs of cheating in those photos.
His hair is blond except at the roots where it appears darker.
Does the sun account for the change or is it performance enhancement?
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Roger Breedlove
Trad climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Jul 24, 2006 - 02:53pm PT
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Hey scuffy,
You know, you blew your chance of believability by making your claims public. If you had kept quite about it you would have been golden.
I want to believe you, but you need to provide objective proof. There still may be a chance of redemption:
Testimonials from friends, maybe?
Backing off every other climb you have ever done—looking for consistency here.
Verifiable claims from a gaggle of great climbers that they did the route in fine style?
Photos--no digital images, however, too suspect--and someone really good to present them to a skeptical audience. (Colon Powell has some relevant experience here.)
Dark hair?
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Jul 24, 2006 - 03:06pm PT
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A little over a week ago, I was walking the carriage road of the Trapps with Max, the non-climber hippie, his dog Shithead(pronounced something like "Shih TAY Ed) and my dog, Teddy. We had no intention of climbing, since Max had toenails the size of Texas that would have had him screeching in pain had I tried to bind his feet with sticky rubber.
I noticed that Teddy had lagged behind, and Shithead was stealthfully watching. Teddy seemed to be trying to quietly slip away, and he was headed directly for the line called Boston(5.5, with an offwidth section that he'd have had to stretch full out to get even two points of contact).
When Teddy noticed I'd noticed him, he seemed to smirk, and then gave me one of those cutest of cute dog grins of his. He hopped right up the first bit of dirt, turned, smiled and dynoed right up the next bit. He smiled at me again, and - shocked! - I realized his intent - to free solo Boston, and take up Biscuit's(rest his soul) mantle.
Teddy jumped up again, and now he was right there where the tree stump meets the rock face. This is the first foothold on the route for MANY a young Gunks climber, and dag nabit, it looked like Teddy intended to forgo it completely My dog has style!
He gave me yet ANOTHER big grin, and I was absolutely sure he would send. He just seemed that on his game; the confidence was palpable.
yes, I was nervous. yes, I feared for his life. he's only a terrier after all, and though Boston's only a single pitch - it's no ledge-filled gimme.....
Teddy seemed just about ready to launch for that rock face; I held my breath - guardian not wanting to stifle his need to go for it, come what may.
I swear I saw him wink and me. And then.....
And then......
And then he TORE into a HUGE lunge. Someone had left nearly a full club sandwich laying at the base, and Teddy, who must be part Sandwich Hound, intended to eat the thing whole.
It was just a sandwich he was after, after all, and not his first free solo. As for me, I din't have any free solos I didn't do, but I can now live vicariously, through Teddy and his non solo of Boston, one of the Gunks more historical classics.
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Roger Breedlove
Trad climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Jul 24, 2006 - 03:10pm PT
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Soooo....what color is Teddy's fur?
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scuffy b
climber
Chalet Neva-Care
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Jul 24, 2006 - 04:13pm PT
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I should have known better, Roger.
Back in those benighted times I thought I was climbing for myself. I intentionally went to 5 & Dime with no witnesses.
The satisfaction I gained from my non-solo of the climb was
hogged all to myself. I didn't realize until now how selfish
I was being by not spraying all over the place. I was irresponsible. It was a phase, just a phase. During the same general time frame, I also did not free-solo Good Book, but (you
can guess) with no disinterested witnesses or cameras around.
It would have been so easy (to assemble the crew of observers)!
Reform is not always brought about without struggle, though.
To illustrate: on my last "pathetic" (in the words of Leroy) outing, I did have a witness to the punishment (even though it was not a free-solo), but it turns out he is a schoolteacher
(there goes the disinterest), and even though his hair is blond,
mine is dark!
I intend to keep up the struggle. I thought you might want to know that.
sm
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GrandMastaD
Social climber
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Jul 24, 2006 - 04:15pm PT
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is that a huge tic-mark in the photo? or just bird shat?
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Roger Breedlove
Trad climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Jul 24, 2006 - 04:33pm PT
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Ha ha, Scuffy. It's all about the striving.
Good one Gene. Funny top ten list.
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Gene
climber
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Jul 24, 2006 - 04:36pm PT
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Top 10 Reasons Why Reardon Actually Free Soloed Romantic Warrior
10. Needed more face time than Romantic Warrior porno film allows.
9. Couldn’t download trial version of Photoshop.
8. No danger at all. I was always tied into photographer’s camera strap.
7. WWBD? (What would Bachar do?)
6. Free shoes for very short life.
5. Astroman was busy that day.
4. Hair stylist was on vacation.
3. I’m all tongue and the chicks love it.
2. Dude! You gotta camera?
1 I’m blond!
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Anastasia
Trad climber
Near a mountain, CA
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Jul 24, 2006 - 05:19pm PT
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I just wanted to be the 201st person to post on this thread since no one cares.
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Jul 24, 2006 - 06:48pm PT
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I didn't read this whole thread. Who did. But I think there are some basic truths at work here.
One, free soloing at any high level borders on the fantastic and the unbelievable. It's one of those see-to-believe kind of gigs. Even if you've heard about it from reliable folks you can't really understand it till you do it or at least see it.
Second, as with all fantastic things, people need to be assured said things really and truly happened lest they are made to feel like they've been force fed stories about alien abduction and other such hogwash. So the plain truth and the fantastic must go hand and hand, or all bets are off. It's not a matter of right or wrong--it's basic human nature to want to KNOW, especially so when the fantastic is involved. To try and avert this by saying we should concern outselves with "more important" things is to vastly underestimate the importance of the truth. I did that for much of my life and it almost destroyed me.
Anyhow, somewhere in the soloing career of MR there were events that happened that led some to believe at least some of his claims were suspect. It is my understanding that these suspicions were somewhat bolstered by wintnesses said to be there but who have since hedged on their specific accounts or have simply not responded with enough specificity to trash can the lingering doubts. So in a sense, in some cases it seems the whole "witness" thing has in itself become somewhat fantastic.
I said "specific" because it's well know that MR solos and solos very well; but simply bearing witness to his soloing prowess does not answer to specific challenges to specific climbs, which probably requires, at this point, specific folks to give specific reports.
Lastly, it is not the climbing community at large who originally made a "big deal" out of this. Free soloing 5.12 IS a big deal, especially when its bolstered by tons of hype. People persist because the truth will always push to be known, especially about fantastic things.
I personally don't have a clue about the lingering doubts. I tend to trust my friend John Bachar on that account. But so long as thre are any doubts at all the questions will never really go away. Nor will they vanish because MR goes on and solos a ton of other stuff and puts it on a DVD. At this point it seems doubtful the questions will go away until the specific routes in question are fully addressed to everyone's satisfaction--something that, sadly, is unlikely to happen by the looks of things.
JL
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Ksolem
Trad climber
LA, Ca
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Jul 24, 2006 - 07:30pm PT
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Well, I've read the whole thread. Even posted a couple times and regretted it once. John (if I may use your first name though I barely know you,) you have made the best post on the thread.
I choose to believe MR for the reasons I gave before, but the doubts are not unreasonable and will not go away easily. The truth has it's own way in the end.
Levy as usual posted thoughtfully and pointedly as well. But I question his logic on one thing. MR showing up and doing Astroman would not prove much. I have been able to do Astroman cleanly without a whole lot of trouble, but remain schooled thoroughly by the Warrior.
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Kevin Daniels
climber
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Jul 24, 2006 - 07:51pm PT
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comments please
as a climber what i climb and how i climb are important.
climbers deal in respect and reputation.
michael is asking climbers to acknowledge and respect him for what he has done. it is important to him or he would have kept it to himself. i have climbed or soloed most all of the routes he has listed. not the scrappy stuff. what he is asking me and the climbing community to do is acknowledge his achievements. this must be important to him or again NO ONE WOULD KNOW.
this is not about my ego. honestly i believe these routes can be soloed onsight. why not ? many have thought about it and have not done so or maybe they have and are laughing.
i dont give my respect to just anyone, it is one of the few things i get to take with me. i have no reason to not believe mike but given the claims he is making honestly i feel a little disrespected by mike. we all know where the cruxes of these routes are. if you have not climbed these routes please do so. i know EXACTLY where the images of me would be if i were making the claims. i would show respect to all the folks who have worked hard to climb these routes by acknowledging their ascents and making it very easy for them to support the fact i had crossed into a completly NEW LEVEL OF COMMITMENT AND PERFORMANCE. i realize these are my views and my feelings and i mean no disrespect to mike or any other climber.
please forgive my spelling and grammer. i was in wood shop
kevin daniels
714 642 5354
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Jul 24, 2006 - 07:52pm PT
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I guess I'll add fuel to the fire here then... This kinda goes along with what Largo said. Lots of people here keep saying "I'll take Bachars word for it" Sorry to drag you back in the mix, John. However, Bachar has never said anything other than what Largo reiterated here: "it's well know that MR solos and solos very well; but simply bearing witness to his soloing prowess does not answer to specific challenges to specific climbs"
John has repeatedly said: "If you can keep up with the boy for a day of climbing, I'll get you free rock shoes for life! (any brand...)"
Oh yeah and, "tic...tic...boom, jb" (This is my favorite line in the whole thread!) =)
And while I think JB is totally credible, this doesn't really answer the question posed, nor offer, really, any more credance to the specific claims. Seems like plenty of people support his soloing ability. It's just specific climbs, that are way above and beyond that people wonder about.
Anyway, just pointing something out. Carry on.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Jul 24, 2006 - 07:59pm PT
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Ksolem wrote:
MR showing up and doing Astroman would not prove much.
It might prove that the allure of a relatively easy 2 large (so far) was too good to resist!
$1000 is knott a paltry amount to me, but it would be worth it to see a live show...
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Jul 24, 2006 - 08:16pm PT
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Jul 24, 2006 - 08:21pm PT
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Sadly, what Largo and some of you others demand is a juried climb.
So it has come to the point where if someone must have a solid witness AND a camera around, or take crap forever.
I think that is biullsh!t
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 24, 2006 - 09:28pm PT
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This thread is long already and won't go away soon. Perhaps it's time to continue ti in Part 2.
But I ain't doin that.
" MR showing up and doing Astroman would not prove much. I have been able to do Astroman cleanly without a whole lot of trouble, but remain schooled thoroughly by the Warrior."
It would prove everything as far as I'm concerned if it was onsight. I don't think Reardon's done Astroman and soloing onsight would be a major step beyond what Croft and Potter accomplished on it. Sure Peter had the vision to take that huge step, but he had it wired. Onsight is a far different animal, which is why, I suppose folks have trouble swallowing the Romantic Warrior episode.
I've got no real evidence either way. Maybe it would be fun if this was a psychology experiment where a lot of truth and a dose of fiction equal confusion.
Or maybe Reardon is just another visionary trashed for being ahead of his time.
Peace
Karl
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James
climber
A tent in the redwoods
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Jul 24, 2006 - 09:42pm PT
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Reardon can have my walker if I can watch him solo Equinox.
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bob d'antonio
climber
boulder, co
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Jul 24, 2006 - 09:53pm PT
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Karl wrote: Or maybe Reardon is just another visionary trashed for being ahead of his time.
Or maybe...a lot of people have small lives and need to move on.
I could less if he solo the routes or not...there are much more important things going down.
Also..climbing isn't dying over...my children and wife are worth living for.
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Richard
Trad climber
Bend, OR.
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Jul 24, 2006 - 10:02pm PT
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When Michael soloed Equinox, I was lucky enough to be privy to the fact that he was gonna try it. There was a race of sorts between Michael and another climber, local to JT.
The afternoon when EQ was soloed, MR and Mark Niles came into the local climbing store (where I worked) and told me he completed the project. We went to his laptop, Mark pulled the chip out of his camera, and we looked at the un-doctored photos. From the first moves of the route to the last.........all rope less
I didn't see it live and in person, but there was absolutly no way they could have photo shoped it into Marks camera. Am I a credible witness? Well, some might say yes and some might say no. I don't climb 5.12 and I barely climb 5.10, these days. But I know what I saw...........I believe Michael. And I also like him. And If you're lurking here MR...........you still owe me that photo!!!
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Jul 24, 2006 - 10:05pm PT
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He wrote: "Sadly, what Largo and some of you others demand is a juried climb.
So it has come to the point where if someone must have a solid witness AND a camera around, or take crap forever.
I think that is biullsh!t"
It is bullsh!t, but not the way you have it phrased above, which is to shift the onus of truth on the climbing community at large, and to hold them totally responsible for the doubts raised by many.
The question really is: Why did doubts ever arise about some of MR's claims? I have no idea myself, but I suspect from the little I've read and the MANY rants I've heard from folks that in some cases there was confusion in the reporting, or some things didn't add up as they should, or versions were tendered that contradicted other things said and so forth. I think most of us take anyone at face value till the reporting starts to confuse us, then only a moron wouldn't wonder. To blame folks for wondering is to try and deflect the issue away from the confusion and onto the peanut gallery. THAT, in my mind, is bullsh!t.
It's seems improbable, but perhaps possible, that these doubts simply grew out of some wankers jealosy of MR's solos. It's an interesting notion.
My question is: why does anyone doubt MR and why? Who is confused about what, and on what grounds? Where did all this start. Did someone just make it all up or what? Answers like "That routes too hard to solo," are not answers at all. What, specifically, is there to suggests he didn't do exactly what he claimed to do?
JL
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Roger Breedlove
Trad climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Jul 24, 2006 - 11:04pm PT
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Since I contributed to this thread in my own bullshit way, I want to second a comment John made above that was the point of my poking into this.
The short list of reasons given for not believing MR are more or less as follows:
Better climbers backed off.
No one saw him do it.
His friends won't stick up for him.
The photos could have been shopped.
He publicized his climbing.
He has off days.
Given what I know about good climbers, this list of justifications doesn’t prove anything. All of those things could be true and it doesn’t add much one way or the other. All could be false and it doesn’t add much. The application of normal expectations doesn’t apply—hard on sight soloing ain’t normal.
And the thing that set me off was the line of questioning had taken on the tone of “If she were real witch she would have survived the dunking.”
I have no idea what Michael Reardon has done or not done. And, I don’t have any reason to doubt his claims. But hard soloing, as John points, is a pretty rarified thing to do. (Dean Potter free soloed Separate Reality several times in row. None of this one shot wonder stuff for him—proving the gun is not really loaded one cylinder at a time, plus the chamber. I don’t think it would occur to anyone I know to question it.)
I haven’t read anything in this tread that seems like a reasonable test—John offer of shoes to Karl’s on-sight solo of Astroman (or to the 'blond' theory) will clear up the matter.
So I think John has hit the nail on the head: “What, specifically, is there to suggests he didn't do exactly what he claimed to do?”
Roger
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 24, 2006 - 11:24pm PT
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" ...... hard on sight soloing ain’t normal."
That's for sure.
But for some strange reason it still draws one in.
Dive deep for the finest pearls .........
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jul 24, 2006 - 11:39pm PT
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John and Roger,
If you keep cutting through the BS like that this bickering may soon lose it's dimestore sweetness.
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T2
climber
Cardiff by the sea
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Jul 24, 2006 - 11:42pm PT
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Here is why I doubt it.
First of all I want to say I would never in my wildest dreams ever consider Bachars offer on following mike around. I would be dead if not on the first route certainly by the second. I do believe and respect most of mikes climbing.
A climbers word is his credability at least that is the way it used to be, thats how I was tought. You always just tell it like it is. I hung on the rope, I had to drill, I did it with out a rope, whatever it may be. Kind of like a code of honor. I know mike, not real well, but have had many conversations with him and we have a mutual friend. He told a bold story to me and a friend at the craggs one day. That story was brought up in previous reardon bashing thread. (It was not me who brought the story out but I did hear the story first hand, and i believe mike lurks around here and is reading all of this)I ran into mike at the climbing gym when this was going down and he let me know in a not straight forward way that he knew what was being said. Anyway he and the person who exposed the story had exchanged some heated emails and mikes story had changed drasticaly from what was told at the craggs. His credability was shot with me at this point.
For someone who wants to be noticed as a top preformer in the free climbing arena your credability better be pretty shinny to me. He really is a nice friendly guy.I don't doubt he climbs very strong but I do doubt some of his claims.
Like Kevin Daniels I oppologize for poor spelling and gramer ( I hope I got my point across) I was in metal shop.
Hi Kevin I am going to need a bunch of hangers and shuts soon. You will hear from me.
T2
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G_Gnome
Social climber
Tendonitis City
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Jul 24, 2006 - 11:43pm PT
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Just make sure you don't forget to come up for air occasionally.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 25, 2006 - 12:07am PT
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Thanks Richard for stepping up to the plate with specific names, a specific climb and not being anonymous.
Equinox is 12c or d right? I'm sure someobody will say it's short or something but hey, it ain't chopped liver is it? It would hurt if you fell off it huh? and at 12c, a lot of folks might fall off it.
Sure, maybe folks should move on with their lives but but this is a climbing forum (more or less) and it's ironic that folks would complain when a climbing thread reaches 200 posts. Wanna talk about Lebanon some more? Or should we discuss the protection rack needed for Double Cross (which I have downsoloed many times, but not onsight, but I have witnesses, but don't remember their names, but, well, I did downsolo it onsight, but I'd been up it before with a rope , but... nevermind)
Peace
karl
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jul 25, 2006 - 12:21am PT
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Karl,
There's a specialness, a je ne sais quaff to making complaints about the complaining.
(mobius)
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 25, 2006 - 12:29am PT
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After Reardon's stint at Rockclimbing.com, he said that he's learned not to get sucked into posting on the net. I thought I'd repost this segment from his "about" page on his website so some words of his explanation might be offered. Afterwards, I'm going to drop a bombshell, an image of Reardon's unhearaled free solo of the Nose!
"Ever since that first freedom without a rope, I never stopped. As time went on, I found myself becoming more comfortable as my abilities - both in quantity and quality - grew. In this process, I found myself repeatedly at the same places on the same great climbs and created various ropeless circuits in a lot of places. These routes range in style and difficulty, but provide me a sense of freedom from the confusion of day-to-day life as well as being a constant reminder of how fun climbing can be. Unfortunately, repeating these enough times has created plenty of witnesses, making my personal pursuits, public.
And that's when the proverbial sh#t hit the fan.
Suddenly, people I didn't know became critical "friends" wanting to save my life, others would hang at the base of climbs waiting for me to solo the hardest stuff around on command, and whispers in campgrounds around the world generated rumors of inhuman proportions. Now I've managed to do a couple things that turn some heads, and yes, the "stupid summer stunts" and " Mojo Club" are real, but all the actual reports are merely the beginnings to larger dreams. That being said, people will still gossip and facts will become skewed. That's what prompted this website - to let people at least know the facts. Opinions are what they are.
Everyone likes to play voyeur and critique. If you solo and talk about it, you are doing it for ego. If you never talked about it and are suddenly discovered, you are underqualified. It's a lose/lose proposition for those that are unwilling to stand up to those that scream so loudly. And that's what this is about, stepping up to those who blather on endlessly.
Part history, part spray, part humor, and part slander, this site is for those that wish to know more about what other's term "insanity", "ego-driven", and just plain "stupid". It's obviously a sport with few participants, because like big wave riding, training happens every day in hopes for those rare moments when the stars line up and genuine moments of purity occur. The only competition is yourself in this game of life. And once in a while, someone touches the imagination and sparks the dream. That's what this is, my dream. "
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jul 25, 2006 - 01:12am PT
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Plus Karl et al,
I don't think we should make a part 2 to this topic.
Let 'er balloon up; a little load up time'll be a good filter.
The size attests to the interest.
This is just getting good.
Some sensible things coming down.
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 25, 2006 - 01:14am PT
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Sensible? ..... Roy?
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jul 25, 2006 - 01:27am PT
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Don't blow my cover Werner,
'K?
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T2
climber
Cardiff by the sea
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Jul 25, 2006 - 01:33am PT
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Tarbuster, Werner may be questioning your sensibility, but I'll bet he doesn't question your credability.
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 25, 2006 - 01:46am PT
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I don't question Roys sensibilities at all. He's a sensible guy.
I just question "OUR" sensibilities about our priorities in life.
When we think this is the only life we have and there is no more beyond that, all thse problems we see here are the product.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jul 25, 2006 - 02:01am PT
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Row, row, row yer boat,
Gently down the stream,
Merrily merrily merrily,
Life is but a dream.
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Sparky
Trad climber
vagabon movin on
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Jul 25, 2006 - 03:53am PT
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Pud nailed it: "Whatever the case, I think MR should run for office, 'cause he sure gets the press."..... and there's no such thing as bad press. I'm sure Acopa n CO would agree.
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westhegimp
Social climber
granada hills
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Jul 25, 2006 - 11:21pm PT
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Levy,
I thought you and Mike were friends, from the way your always smiling, happy and buddybuddy to his face. If you think hes a liar then maybe your not who you appear to be.
Wes
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Jul 25, 2006 - 11:32pm PT
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It is bullsh!t, but not the way you have it phrased above, which is to shift the onus of truth on the climbing community at large, and to hold them totally responsible for the doubts raised by many.""
Nope, that's not what I said.
I said that it sucks that apparently you now need a camera and a witness or some intenet wanks will crap all over what you might have done. FUthermore, hte idea that somone should free solo on demand liek a trained monkey to satisfy a bunch of malcontents just gripes me.
and in another sentence, it seems you are now saying that if something is not questioned one may believe it but when it is questioned one must doubt, or else one becomes a moron? Hmmmm, nah, I don't think so.
HAHA, I agree with the guy who wrote this about it: And the thing that set me off was the line of questioning had taken on the tone of “If she were real witch she would have survived the dunking.”
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Sheik aka JD
Trad climber
San Diego
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Jul 26, 2006 - 12:51am PT
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Regarding T2's reference...I was there with T2 and two other respected climbing community members when this incident occurred. I agree with T2's observations and statements.
I have waited some time to mention this specific point. I waited because there is enough shite going around in this world. And I don't really care what the guy in the subject line does or does not do; EXCEPT for the fact that he negatively slandered/affected my close friend who brought the aforementioned historical point to light (see T2's statement above).
MR is an exceptional climber. But that is no reason to spray big, then retract the statement, then deny it, then freak out on my friend.
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brett kassell
Trad climber
san jose, ca
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Jul 26, 2006 - 03:08am PT
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$2K in the kitty....wire it first if you want. you have about 5 months. i am sure sponsors would love it which could mean more $$$$.
when jb offered $10k to follow him for a day, croft said he never even considered it. croft sololed astroman with no repeats for years....now one other. who will own the third proud fsa?
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Jul 26, 2006 - 10:54am PT
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He wrote: "It is bullsh!t, but not the way you have it phrased above, which is to shift the onus of truth on the climbing community at large, and to hold them totally responsible for the doubts raised by many.""
Nope, that's not what I said.
I said that it sucks that apparently you now need a camera and a witness or some intenet wanks will crap all over what you might have done."
I think you're gettig confused about first causes. It's my understanding that initial doubts were raised NOT because MR lacked photographic evidence, but because his reports and the reports of others about specific climbs were somwhat contradictory, and mutated over time. Once that kind of doubt is raised, it's probably the case that nothing short of a video will truly clear the air. IOW, it's not the lack of photos or the after the fact bashing that raised the doubt, but the confusing and inconsistant reporting in the first place.
JL
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Kevin Daniels
climber
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Jul 26, 2006 - 05:05pm PT
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i just read FERAL MISBEHAVINGS by Michael Reardon on page 72 volume 8 issue 3 GRIPPED magazine.
mike discribes his Romantic Warrior solo.
i realized it is mikes inconsistant actions that personally make me uncomfortable when people ask me my opinion. i believe mike or any other climber is capably of this feat. it is the constant awarness i have of the incongruant behavior and verbage that causes my state of mind. i have never climbed with mike but do know him and he is a nice guy. i am in the position where i have to choose between not making a comment or stating yes or no to people.
in the R&I article the route was " A CAKE WALK " he overtrained and specifically trained for the CRUX STEMMING. but when it was time for the photos opted not to climb the crux pitch. THIS IS NOT CONSISTANT ACTION AND VERBALIZATION. he trained for the stemming and their is no stemming pictures i have seen at all.
in the Gripped artice i quote mike here " f*#king great, i mumble under my breath. six hundred feet from the deck on a multi-pitch 5.12b ive never done before, i cant afford the luxury of a second thought as the icy chill starts up the base of my spine. im without a rope and too far in to reverse the way i came"
again these to articles totally contridict each other as they cover the same experience mike had.
the article in gripped seemed like a more genuine experience ?
again i mean no disrespect but ALLOT of things are contridictory when i look at mikes facts and actions.
kevin daniels
714 642 5354
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Jul 26, 2006 - 06:41pm PT
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jesus christ, now it's mike's fault that two different authors and two different editorial staffs paint two different pictures in two different articles in two different magazines?
all this he said she said stuff and the everyone but ghandi lacks credibility crap is just what dirt says- simply unfair BS. he can claim this and that, and you can believe it or not, but in the end who really cares? the guy could solo dean potter style (see astroman and delicate arch), w/ camera crews at the ready, but that is a pathway to criticism in itself (you think the guy is called a self promoter now? and will hans florine ever not be "hollywood hans"?), and can you say that you would want to see that sort of set up in the corner of your eye on a FS where you were pushing it? really? go on then, push yourself w/ no rope, in front of a camera, i'd like to see that myself (some fairly unathletic looking guy at manure pile once pulled out a video camera when i walked up to solo after 7, and i remember thinking that i hope i make his yosemite vacation memories video, but if i were needing every bit of focus i could gather, i would rather be alone thanks).
someone above claims 1st hand, same day, chip right out of the camera viewing of equinox solo pics, what are you all saying to that? "OK then, i guess that particular concern on my part was not valid..." ??? so go ahead, step up and say so if you ever openly and publicly doubted that ascent, or where is YOUR "credibility"?? (as if it really matters to anyone in this junior high school hallway rumor-mill anyway).
as for astroman, that climb seems to me to be representative of what may be in large part (and in response to largo's post) the genisis of some of the misgivings about the guy and his claims.
he is not "from yosemite"
he is from LA and has "big hair"
he is not one of those cool kids in that yosemite stoners club (no offense, but that is undeniably the center of some universe or another), and he's made claims that trump some of yosemite's icons greatest feats.
now you say he needs to do astroman to prove he is legit-
well to me, astroman and yosemite granite in general is a pretty different animal than what he seems to climb on more regularly, no friction, ivory smooth, all of that. so would he have to take some long trip to get used to that type of rock, that sort of security? does he have the time (family, career, other priorities, etc)? and why ought he to do this? just for the pleasing of some people that are less than... friends?
that's a really great motivation, dontchya think?
(equally so, come on JB, free shoes for life? do you really think anyone who would even try to follow MR for a day would ever be looking at needing to buy their own shoes? not hardly pal, come on and pony up a $ figure! we could sell the event to OLN or even pay-per-view and be in the black for sure!)
anyways, back to MR for just a minute-
when i met him he was quietly watching me from the parking lot as i struggled on my 1st attempt on the left ski track. i had never watched it climbed and i was trying to jamb the flaring crack, right at/below where you can lay back the ear/flake thing, a short ways below the bolt. after i took and hung there i was still perplexed and i lowered/aided off to rest and give it another go from the ground. he came over and told me to trust my gear and go for it. i asked him fior the beta in that part and he gave it to me (and i did get it clean, but not until the next day, thanks again mike).
anyway, in that short conversation, i made a joke about the gear and what did he know about trusting gear, yada yada yada, was he just waiting for me to get my gear out of his way, etc.
he replied that he was a few days away from feeling up to soloing the LST, and then he walked right up the RST and took off. so there's videos of the guy on EBGBS, stills of him on equinox (and the 12a but not 12b bits of RW), he's done something like 260 or 280 routes solo in a day in JT, but still on some days, or when he's not in a rythem or hasn't been climbing(?), the LST is too much. knowing all this, clearly he is full of sh#t about this one crux pitch of this one climb at a cragg that he solos at frequently and would likely feel really familiar with and whatnot, and is he ever can't repeat a previous performance then everything he has ever said is in doubt, is that it?
whatever, i could care less what people i don't know think of someone i just met one time, but seriously, not-fer-nothin, but ya'll should just hear yourselves, sounds like a bunch of fuking kids in the schoolyard to me.
PS- i've solo'd FV when it was soaked, climbed it on a rope w/ my wife the other week and i needed to sew up the wet stuff, go figure.
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Kevin Daniels
climber
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Jul 26, 2006 - 07:31pm PT
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matt
as i stated the author of the gripped article is michael. have you read it ? and the R & I article was quoted by mike. did you read it ?
i know mike and would honestly love to completly support him. i am challenged by this often. i did not ask for the position i am in and i have not commented for a long time. it would be really easy for mike to adress this. he does not have to solo this or that or get this or that image. he just needs to sit back and do what he does AND be consistant with his statments and actions.
whats you last name matt ? so if i ever meet you i can properly introduce myself ?
thanks
kevin daniels
714 642 5354
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
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Jul 26, 2006 - 08:04pm PT
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Kevin, if you would use your real name you might get the answers you seek.
(how's the poker game?? Missed you last month in Bishop)
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Jul 26, 2006 - 08:23pm PT
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kevin-
i haven't "read" either article. i did look at the porn in R&I and may have skimmed some of it- i can't even recall to be honest. my point is still valid if MR wrote one article and not the other- two authors, two editors, two articles, two magazines, and R&I ain't exactly fine journalism. those rag articles are all written w/ a particular perspective, often bringing something that feels commercial and is otherwise unrelated into the mix (example: why does dean potter soloing seperate reality have anything to do w/ the delicate arch stuff? i don't see how it does, but they call it some sort of "redemption" binge or something to that affect, in a headline or subtitle- why is that? did he ever say anything like that it was all about his own redemption, or that of his image, or that of his sponsors? doesn't that seem odd to you (that it would say that in the headline)?
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jul 26, 2006 - 08:27pm PT
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Wierd thread, why is this so important?
Anas- shoes only approach their full potential after the first re-sole.
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Kevin Daniels
climber
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Jul 26, 2006 - 08:42pm PT
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hi russ
i have been getting schooled as i learn the game. i asked neil this morning when the next one is.
do you still have that chair / ledge prototype i got from rudy ?
do you ever talk to him ?
i am at 381 east line, next to the rehad center if it gets bad.
let me know your ETA.
ya i dont really know the protocal with this web stuff. i still got a commodor 64. rocks and stick is my craft.
kevin daniels
714 642 5354
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
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Jul 26, 2006 - 10:56pm PT
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Kev, I'll be through the Bishop area in Sept... home game for sure. Neil is in the loop... We'll get a hold of ya! Doug is in Co still... a lifer.
Now about that Reardon kid...... what can one say..... pretty spectacular stuff. Fact or fiction.... hmmmmmmm.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Jul 26, 2006 - 11:29pm PT
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John Long,
I don't CARE about first causes, and I am not confused.
IT is really very simple. People are calling for someone to perform to their satisfaction, on demand, an exacting feat, and this feat is the sort of thing that should only be done when the person actually DOING the feat feels like he wants to, and for no other reason.
I sincerely hope that Mike Reardon along with any other person contemplating free soloing will NEVER do it to please critics, nor to remove doubt from the minds of others.
I DON'T CARE what MR's reasons for soloing are, I don't care if he is a shameless self promoter, I don't even care if he is lying his ass off. I don't care if he can free solo 5.14, onsight, on a rainy day, either.
I only know him from a few messages, and he seemed fine to me, a lot more the kind of person I'd like to meet than the ones calling for the dunking stool.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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I have no problem believing he did most or all of the freesolos he claims, but he does kind of remind me of the Grizzly Bear dude. The only real question I have is what would Harding have rated MR if he were writing Downward Bound today...?
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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I love it that the Vampire wallpaper (I think it's Vampire) link is named tic_tic_boom_lg.html. =)
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klinefelter
Boulder climber
Bishop, CA
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"It’s funny how the biggest naysayer is always the one you never see at the crag. You can check out the video of the Vampire yourself at www.freesolomovie.com."
Mr. Kranzle,
I could not find the video of The Vampire on your freesolomovie.com flashsite. Please advise.
See you at the crags,
Tom
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Murf
climber
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There's a short segment of the Vampire in the first trailer, seconds 28-32. They are of the traverse on P2, and cycle out before the crux move to the big hold. He never lets go of the last big handhold on the traverse.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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And then you want Mike to prove something by endangering his own life for your juicy gossip forum and entertainment! As dirtineye eloquently said (I agree with him this once): that's bullsh#t. You should be ashamed
I'm knott sure this is entirely fair. Cameras were in place for several of his solos, as depicted
in Return To Sender, ect. One would assume they were notified and set up in advance.
A quick two-large could be made by 2 extra e-mails or phone calls, assuming that
video crew would be notified to film an onsight of Astroman. What's the big deal?
BTW, I checked the website linked above, and couldn't find any Vampire footage either.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 1, 2006 - 02:12pm PT
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Yes, very sorry to disturb you with a climbing related topic.
Maybe you didn't like my choice of words, 'reports are filtering in.' oh well. I read here and on RC that climbers had seen him TRing the climb. Thought it would be an interesting climbing topic, since it involves a bit of controversy, and climbing at world class levels. my bad.
I did think Matt was the funniest, since he's telling us all to STFU, basically what he gets on a weekly basis for his non climbing politcal threads. Whatever.
Mike doesn't have to go out and solo and die. But it has been such a weird saga! Stories change? Photos are up on his site then disappear? People see him back off .10 and .11 stuff, then he OS solos a .12b that the best climbers in the world have fallen on. People climb the Palisade traverse soon after MR is there, and doesn't find his vagisil?
And then we get a bunch of clowns that tell us we should solo behind Mike for a day? Like that proves anything except that I suck? The whole thing really is ridiculous. And I can't say I really find a lifetime of free shoes that appealing. Whoopee. I have a job, thanks.
I have no doubt Mike is a strong climber. I hear about him soloing stuff all the time. But soloing every route on Hemingway is a bit different from OS soloing at a world class level. Had there been no question marks, had the stories been consistent, I'd be persuadeable. I've got no horse in this race.
And what's up with his buddies posting up here, but won't name any climbs? That's just... I don't even know what that is!
With regard to the video posted, I couldn't see it. But that might be my computer. But what does that prove? He soloed the route on film. After TRing it several times. After claiming he's soloed it 3x previously???? Is it just me, or does that raise more questions than it answers?
Anyway, there's a few of my thoughts on this not-so-dead horse. BTW, if any of the facts/assumptions listed above are incorrect, please feel free to correct me.
It's a big circus. For a punter like me, it's entertaining.
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WBraun
climber
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The video should be titled "Return To Slander"
Hahahaha .........
Ok, carry on.
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Rankin
climber
Bishop, CA
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caughtinside, do you free solo?
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 1, 2006 - 02:33pm PT
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Now, does that have anything to do with Reardon?
But to answer your question, yes and no. I don't do it regularly. I can't say I really enjoy it. Every time I've done it, I didn't feel awesome, or cool, or whatever. My hardest OS free solo is 5.6, and hardest solo is .7. Not hard.
Are my questions less valid?
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Rankin
climber
Bishop, CA
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Actually, questions are neither valid nor invalid...they're questions. Answers and reasoning, however, can be invalid.
I do take it as your opinion, though you've never stated it, that you don't think MR soloed RW. That's fine. But it's your reasoning that's invalid. Not because you haven't free soloed above 5.7, but because you don't seem to understand hard soloing. Soloing near one's limit is just that. So if you think MR didn't solo RW, state it, and move on, and quit with all this Perry Mason of supertaco bullsh#t. You're not convincing anyone of anything.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 1, 2006 - 05:22pm PT
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Ok sure. I don't understand hard soloing. But I do find cutting edge solos fascinating. But isn't it interesting that anyone who questions the RW solo has their soloing questioned? You asking me, others telling people to solo behind MR for a day. Unrelated. Your posts in this thread are about me, not MR or his soloing.
So I'll say it, sure. No, I don't think that MR onsight free soloed RW. This is an opinion, and it really isn't that strongly held. I think there is a possibility that he did it.
I didn't think it was 'perry mason bullshit' to ask a few questions about it, and I sure didn't create the controversy. If he didn't do it, it would not be the first lie in climbing...
Oh yeah, I'm not really trying to convince anyone of anything. Just maybe trying to discuss climbing on a climbing related website?
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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to ya'll that are saying he might/must have solo'd, for the camers, up to a given point, and then backed off, later editing the film:
you may be missing the point-
and that point may be to lure the likes of you to get him even more publicity- kinda brilliant really.
i am more likely to be skeptical that he filmed and faked it that i am to believe that he filmed it but he would rather tease all these naysayers that he thinks are just a bunch-a-biatches.
so, i couldn't tell on that site, are those trailers for a fuill length film or video of some sort? what's the gig? anyone?
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klinefelter
Boulder climber
Bishop, CA
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It's impossible to prove MR did not do something he claims to have done, unless he simply admits to having lied about it - highly unlikely. The heart of the matter, IMO, can be found in statements like the following:
"Michael has been pushing the limits of soloing like no other before him. He has redefined what was thought possible and seemingly that's only the beginning." - from cinematographer Thomas Kranzle's website.
This sort of thing fuels the controversy. It's disrespectful to other talented freesoloists, like Alain Robert, Peter Croft, and so many others, who's acomplishments have rarely, if ever, been questioned. Reardon and his PR team are selling him as the greatest free soloist of all time. This is bound to draw the attention of the doubters and naysayers, and to expect anything else is a bit ridiculous. When Kranzle et al say "He has redefined what was thought possible", I think they refer specifically to a handful of climbs that, for some reason, Reardon did alone without anyone to actually verify. You don't have to solo hard 11 to be qualified in your reservations; it's simply a matter of not wanting to roll over and accept everything that's shoved down your throut.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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what if he were just building the controversey intentionally, only to prove it in a movie, maybe one that was for sale, say on the web? hmmm...
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Creaky
Trad climber
CT
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I semi-delurked because of how irritating it was being told that video footage was up of the Vampire solo, only to see it's not up. It's kind of like being asked out to dinner by a friend only to find out dinner is at an Amway convention. I have no doubt that after wiring it Reardon could solo it and would bet he has done so. But, put the footage up already and don't say anymore until you do. It's not that hard to get the video on the site.
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Tahoe climber
climber
Texas to Tahoe
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Look, caughtinside:
1) I don't mind talking about climbing - in fact, I prefer it, so cut the wounded ego trip
2) You're still saying that someone is lying based on circumstantial, at best, evidence. Can't you understand the simple and compelling hypocrisy of saying: "I don't believe that MR soloed b/c I haven't seen it, and other people tell me on these other websites that he was seen toproping something (with slab moves on a hot day)."
You haven't even seen him at all - climbing or NOT climbing.
It's a joke.
3) More of the "evidence" against MR includes a pictorial of him in a climbing mag - hundreds of feet above the ground on a 5.12 climb, but since there isn't one of him on the hardest, cruxiest, lichen-iest, gnarliest stem move, now we don't believe him? Gimme a break, kid!
4) One very respected climber, Bachar, vouches for him. Why don't you believe him again? And by the way, my friend, a lifetime supply of shoes is pretty sweet, not that you or I are good enough to win that challenge. I mean, I go through like 3 pair a year! $140 x 3 = $420 a year. I don't care how good you job is - you can't turn your nose up at that!
5) As I posted earlier - I'm with you on the personal challenge thing. What you can solo is a different, if interesting, issue. I think the fact that this response keeps showing up is related to just the overwhelming amount of hassle that MRs friends have to put up with and see him go through. Since everyone's got an opinion w/o proof, they're just fed the f#ck up.
6) Finally, the Astroman challenge - this is the most distasteful bit of entertainment of it all, to me. What's the big deal, Short Timer asks. Well, the first thought that comes to mind for me is HE COULD F#CKING DIE, that's what!
I know I can climb some 5.12s and don't have a shot at others - sport vs trad, for instance - what if he's the same way? What if he's not into Astroman? What if he just doesn't respond to the supertopoains jabbing and "Climb, monkey, climb?"
Besides, much like the personal challenge bit, it is an irrelevant, if interesting issue, and doesn't prove anything one way or the other.
-Aaron
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 1, 2006 - 06:33pm PT
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Aaron, without addressing most of your 'points' which are largely nonsense, I'll just say that I'm a bit reserved about accepting one of the boldest onsight freesolos in history, when it has so many question marks around it.
Obviously, whether he did or did not solo RW isn't going to be proved on this thread.
But, there seem to be a number of people willing to post here to say, 'stop posting about MR.' Whatever! He made himself the story, and even if 100% of his claims are true (a possiblity) I'd say he has largely himself to blame for the controversy.
You can rail at people, call them stupid, ask why they don't believe bachar, etc. But what does bachar say? 'he's the real deal' or something like that. ok...
But there are like 250 replies to this thread, so obviously people are interested. I also make a weekly (weakly?) attempt to discuss climbing in tahoe and the leap in particular, that are lucky to get 10 replies. Sorry if you are so personally offended by a climbing topic that has been covered by national climbing publications.
Matt, if it is all to build controversy, then he is a genious/as#@&%e, and good for him!
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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do you think that he thinks you are an as#@&%e?
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Anastasia
Trad climber
Near a mountain, CA
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Blah, blah, blah...
It seams everyone loves controversy. No one ever post this much about mundane events such as a climbing trip to Yose.
Talk on and don't take each other so seriously. Mike is a great guy despite all this noise.
AF
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 1, 2006 - 06:48pm PT
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Hey Matt, I really like your wifes 'No W' sticker on her helmet. Do you guys talk about how much you hate bush when you're in Yosemite?
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le_bruce
climber
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Long thread, didn't read it all.
Last year I climbed the Vampire. As my partner and I 3rd classed up to the start of the bat crack, we saw Reardon and P. Mortimer, creater of Return to Sender, racking up at the base.
Very friendly folks, they offered to let us go first, which we declined.
Reardon floated the first pitch. Rather than crimp through the 11a traverse at the start of the second, he dynoed from the big hold to the flake (wasn't that how JL and crew did it on the FFA?). They did a variation to the 3rd pitch that skips the hard and balancy move beyond the bolt and into the seam by skirting way out right and up the face. He told us later it was because he was looking at it for a solo variation.
Me? I could barely get the hard move to the anchors at the top of p1. Fell on lead from the crimp traverse on 2 and had to gain the flake from below. Couldn't stick the move into the seam on 3, falling while cleaning a small tcu that my partner placed. I nailed that 4th pitch, 5.9 though.
As I dogged under the small tcu in the seam, Reardon hollered over (while down-climbing something in the gulley): 'Hey, I don't remember a no-hands rest right there?'
Just busting my balls. Got a laugh out of me.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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CI- i admit that sometimes, while climbing in yosemite, we do talk about bush, but it's usually a red and oily bush, the kind w/ square stems and leaves in threes. if you wanna know more, you can ask your buddy seth.
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Creaky
Trad climber
CT
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"It’s funny how the biggest naysayer is always the one you never see at the crag. You can check out the video of the Vampire yourself at www.freesolomovie.com."
Put the video up!
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Cali Mt Bum
Trad climber
CA
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If you really want to check out what MR has been up to go to freesolomovie.com.
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brett kassell
Trad climber
san jose, ca
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no one wants the purse...i'll sweeten the pot if there is interest...considerably so......i don't see another fs repeat for another 5 years minimum. Peter Croft remains the ultimate free soloist in our era. period.
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