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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 28, 2011 - 03:11am PT
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Anders- Not quite.. This is Nina
Joe's Crack
Climber: Nina Photo: Aislinn Merkel
Oplopanax- Nice Photo! I'm surprised Scrubber didn't out it... Ultimate Everything.. Such a fun climb! Is there a party on Teddy Bears Picnic in the background??
Kris- Nice work! Another Wild route on my tick list! Thanks for the preview!
Some more of Kyle's photos
Top of Angel's Crest
Climber: Kyle Photo: Luke Cormier
Luke leading the crux of Birds of Prey
Photo: Kyle
Kyle stopped while simuling to take this picture! :)
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Scrubber
climber
Straight outta Squampton
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Oct 28, 2011 - 03:22am PT
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Hmmm, where did that big flake and the tree go on the last picture...? I could've sworn it was there last year... :)
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 28, 2011 - 11:45am PT
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I dunno. Think i saw video of some punk with glasses lever it off there with a 2x4. ;) when i went up there i could not believe the size of it!
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Oct 28, 2011 - 02:54pm PT
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I remember seeing the anchor for that pitch of Peder's and wondering about it. Luc M gave me the details; I always wondered why it never made it into the guides.
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MH2
climber
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Oct 28, 2011 - 04:02pm PT
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(another) Luke
"Luke, I am your father."
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 28, 2011 - 06:09pm PT
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Skywalker! Mr. Frimer's ultra popular moderate multi! A very nice continuation of a old unused aid climb.
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Saugy
Mountain climber
BC
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Oct 28, 2011 - 10:34pm PT
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Here's the video of the Birds of Prey trundle
http://youtu.be/K0Tj2dWiXPk
I could see the scar that it left on the rock all summer from the highway!
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 29, 2011 - 02:01am PT
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Ok what is with the music in that video! That thing was huge.. That scar was almost as tall as me!
Took some photos of Kyle at the Smoke Bluffs the other day,
Climb and Punishment 10d
Tami- I noticed that you and Peter FA'd this one with Robin Barley. Did you guys hang out with him alot bitd?
I noticed RB calls The Ugly American, Ugly Anders on his topo.. I geuss he is just continuing the tradition of Anders Bum? :)
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dugillian
Trad climber
Vancouver
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Oct 29, 2011 - 02:49am PT
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Skywalker is by no means anything special. It has one pitch that is pseudo-interesting and the rest are a waste of time. The real only worth of that "climb" is that it keeps people off of the truly worthy and interesting climbs.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 29, 2011 - 03:46am PT
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It's a very good starting point for fledgling trad climbers to do their first multi. It takes pressure of Diedre and the rest of the apron, has some very nice views and some fun moves, and is a great place to take your girlfriend. :)
Yeah it's short and sometimes wet at the bottom.. But really it was designed with NOOB trad leaders in mind.. It's popularity says it all.
Like you said keep em there till they figure things out.. Kalhanie and all the other cracks there as well as Local Boys are the cleanest they have ever been. Lots of other cool routes around there might see more traffic now too.
For those who don't follow squamishclimbing.com Fish Boy posted up a tr of his Ten Years After solo to go with his pretty photos here: http://squamishclimbing.com/squamish_climbing_bb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3683&p=17696&sid=1c8b7fda972e6723f2cdc767774755a7#p17696
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thekidcormier
Trad climber
squamish, b.c.
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Oct 29, 2011 - 12:11pm PT
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dugillian; it seems as tho you have some what of a personal vendetta with the skywalker route... whats your beef?!? it is what it is.
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MH2
climber
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Oct 29, 2011 - 12:30pm PT
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Not speaking for anyone else, but I was a little bothered by aspects of Skywalker. In years past I had done several of the routes that get to the top of that formation. It was cool up there: the moss, the trees, the salal, everything seemed to fit with everything else. Now, at the top of Skywalker you find a path and other landscaping and a trail of orange flagging. The disturbance is temporary and in a year or two everything may look good again to us sensitive types, and in the meantime the descent is safer for those who need help getting down.
It's an old story. To get something, a new safe moderate route, you have to give up something else, the feeling that you have got away from the human influence.
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Oct 29, 2011 - 07:20pm PT
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I wonder if people would claim now that Gordie Smaill was a great visionary if he'd done Grim Reaper with like 100 bolts and comfortized belays and stuff back in 74.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Oct 29, 2011 - 07:46pm PT
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As Neil and Gordie did Grim Reaper in 1969, and placed bolts at the few places they could, probably not. Those of us who tried and eventually did it a decade later couldn't have imagined adding bolts to it. The climb is now considerably cleaner than it was then, and I believe that its few bolts have been replaced by modern ones.
IIRC, The Crossing is close to Grim Reaper. Those who did The Crossing's first ascent made some effort to ensure that its bolts did not impinge on the Reaper, although one of the bolts is reachable from the second pitch of Snake, and alters it.
Like Andy, I have rather mixed feelings about routes at Squamish with what can be argued are convenience bolts. We don't have an unlimited amount of rock, particularly rock suitable for moderate climbs, and need to be careful about how we use it. Convenience bolts may allow more climbers to experience a given bit of rock, but may also cause the innocent, the ignorant, the insecure and the unprepared onto climbs, which as is evident from Diedre isn't always a good idea. Also, of course, it encourages people to think that all routes should have bolt belays - even if natural anchors are available, and it's not a usual rappel line.
Likewise I have concerns about where the right balance is in terms of vegetation removal and the like.
Somewhat related, there are several areas at Squamish where we might consider a "new bolt" and "new route" ban. Anywhere on the Apron to the right of Diedre, in most areas to the left of Diedre, and on the upper Apron, most new climbs would have little character, and would often detract from existing routes. Likewise several cliffs in the Little Smoke Bluffs. Very little of that rock hasn't already been climbed or explored, at least on toprope.
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MH2
climber
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Oct 29, 2011 - 08:40pm PT
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MH2, I bet you wouldn't have so sanguine an outlook if they built a gazebo above a certain traverse eh?
Why refer to the Errol Pardoe hut?
....
Oh, wait.
You trying to give me a heart attack?
Such a thing would require Direct Action.
Or it could be a sign to move to Bella Coola or some such.
I see that a Best Practices Guide for route development is posted on BC Parks, and there will be a meeting to discuss it on 5 November. It reads as even-handed and tolerant of route cleaning as long as no one is maimed or killed, and as long as no falcons are disturbed. But it also says that vegetation within a provincial park is protected under the Park Act. Hope that you don't run afoul of Vegetation Enforcement.
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bmacd
Mountain climber
100% Canadian
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Oct 29, 2011 - 09:02pm PT
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Now, at the top of Skywalker you find a path and other landscaping and a trail of orange flagging. The disturbance is temporary and in a year or two everything may look good again to us sensitive types,
I would like to add, that the level of trail marking in Squamish has gone beyond ridiculous. Of particular note is the well worn trail along the base of my favorite crag the Papoose. 2" fluorescent markers every 75 feet.
Bear in mind, immediately to the right is the large granite wall of the Papoose, immediately left is the highway. Directly infront of you is one of the most well worn, oldest trails in Squamish.
I took appropriate action and removed 50% of the markers, the next time I visit the crag I will remove all of them. This is a form of visual pollution, totally asinine whoever installed them.
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MH2
climber
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Oct 29, 2011 - 09:53pm PT
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Well, at least someone flagged the dangerous trees along the path to Pet Wall.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Oct 29, 2011 - 11:39pm PT
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Hopefully they're not flagging the trees so that they know which ones to cut down.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 29, 2011 - 11:46pm PT
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That's the problem Jim. Climbing Gym's. They teach us how to climb, but nothing of the history, tradition or ethics of climbing.
You guys seemed to have more access to your elders bitd because it was a tighter community, so those values were passed on as they are here in your stories.
I was introduced to climbing by my girlfriend who had been into it for a couple of years. I learned a bit from her, but when she had a rock fall accident that ended up with her sipping her meals through a straw for six weeks it messed with her psyche a bit.
So suddenly I was the leader. Then we broke up and I started going to the gym where I met other gym climbers.
I have climbed with many more experienced partners in the years since but have never really had a mentor.
Today's climbers typically have no access to their elders, which leads to a lack of understanding as we don't really know why you guys did things the way you did.
Plus people are pussies.
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dugillian
Trad climber
Vancouver
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Oct 30, 2011 - 12:41am PT
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Vendetta?? Just calling a spade a spade. The thought of spending months to remove all forms of vegetation to create something marginally mediocre is just something I find offensive.....I'd call this form of route creation a "Vendetta" against nature.
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