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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Aug 30, 2010 - 02:22am PT
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Patrick Sawyer!
Interesting story from bitd(1976)although somewhat abreviated(short)and you left out the ending(D.Y. & the 4 S's). Good thing that they didn't have tazers back then...that woulda been a really bad "trip"!!
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Argon
climber
North Bay, CA
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Aug 30, 2010 - 03:13am PT
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I agree with Karl's point that there are not that many laws being broken in Yosemite but lots of money being spent on enforcement. I think the pendulum has swung in many parts of the country to the point where we have way too many law enforcers focusing their efforts on petty offenses (traffic, minor drug possession, persecuting Blago) while far less energy is spent on real public safety. On a percentage basis, it seems that they catch far more base jumpers in YNP than they do murderers here in San Francisco and Oakland. Karl passed 4 LEO vehicles on his short trip in the park - while driving from SF to Marin Friday night, I passed 12 cop cars in about 8 miles from 7 different jurisdictions (SF police, Golden Gate Bridge patrol, CHP, Marin sheriff, Sausalito police, Tiburon police plus a GGNRA ranger - I made a quick trip to Rodeo beach in the Headlands.) Personally, I don't feel that the priority of any of these 7 organizations is to protect and serve me, far from it - yet I'm forced to contribute to their bloated and redundant staffs and infrastructure and their unsustainable pension and benefit programs. The state is choking on its public sector obligations - we should have a massive reduction in spending for enforcement in this petty offense area. Yeah, I know that traffic stops and DUI checkpoints snag a lot of real criminals and other undesirables - but it seems that their primary purpose is to annoy the taxpaying public and generate revenue for gov't coffers. It's a shame that Yosemite is over-LEO'ed. Let's say we did cut back enforcement and the next guy to base jump El Cap had, say, a 50% lower chance of being tasered, then I'm OK with it. I'll still visit the park. And their budget might look a little better. And I would still be highly unlikely to base jump - but I might risk taking my dog off lease in Tuolumne.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Aug 30, 2010 - 03:21am PT
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It's a business. like anything else. Also, why a lot of climbers now operate outside of parks...
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Papillon Rendre
climber
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Aug 30, 2010 - 03:49am PT
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Well, Bad Water, I must be incredibly ignorant because I got Coz's point.
Sounds to me that he is saying due to the extreme measures of dragnet LEO's, for offenses that are not too severe, their actions can cause some severe reactions, possibly resulting in death.
Perhaps the hunter should evaluate the severity of the crime, more carefully, before they use extreme measures for apprehending the non-violent violators. (not saying this pertains to this specific incident)
I can understand their behavior if the offender was a violent criminal, but for base jumping? Maybe they should sachez down to the bridge, and really have some good fun. A lot of criminals down there and the sign clearly says "no jumping".
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Aug 30, 2010 - 06:55am PT
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hey there jingy say.... as to your quote:
neeb - didn't I just read that you were gone forever?
Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 19, 2010 - 06:05pm PT
oh my.... i would not have said "forever"... it is too precise :O ....
BUT-->i truly DID have a great fear though, that my poor ol' computer or modem was "near done for" and that it would be a long hard haul, til i could ever make it back here again... :(
but three cheers, to the grace of god, i found the proper trail, and my trouble was due to:
netzero having a notably newer system than i knew of----so new, it knew not my computer's nomenclator that it cators to calling it's sign-on code, naturally it was then a nomad, newly unknown to them (though in fact, it nicely HAD known it,until now)... well none the known-less, i AM BACK.... :)
oh my---you can go read up on the whole mess (on that post's newer info), and the wonderful good news that helped me...
wow, HOPE all is well with you jingy, and that the week will be special and very nice for you...
god bless...
*back to ammon mcneely post now...
:)
edit: ooops, forgot... i am very sorry if i caused some confusion there, to you jingy....
once again, computer is okay now...
god blesss...
:)
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that old guy
Trad climber
CA
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Aug 30, 2010 - 08:05am PT
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Back in the day, I got pretty harassed in the Tuolumne parking lot for sorting my gear alongside my vehicle. Just a weekend climber trying to get a little natural high. Toe the line in the Park, that's all I can say, esp. speed limits. I did get hit head-on on tioga pass rd. in the middle of the night, they did give the other guy a ticket, & helped me out considerably. That guy wasn't in a cop car, though, just a Ranger.
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sethsquatch76
Trad climber
Joshua tree ca
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Aug 30, 2010 - 08:51am PT
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ATTENTION ALL OUT LAWS AND PIRATES:
YOSEMITE IS NOT SAFE FOR YOU, ABANDON THE DITCH, EJECT, ESCAPE, THE MAN HAS YOUR NUMBER, ITS NOT IF YOU WILL GET BUSTED, BUT WHEN...... THE FORBIDDEN FRUIT WAS EATEN A LONG TIME AGO....... LET THE VALLEY GO AND MOVE ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BLM and Forest service land is much more suited to the outlaw life style. I have not climbed in the valley in 6 years, cant get comfortable there.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Aug 30, 2010 - 09:45am PT
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Karl Baba: It's my observation that there is a fundamental difference between the culture and attitudes of hang-gliders vs BASE jumpers. Gliders tend to follow rules. A segment of BASE jumpers prefer not to.
I spent all day climbing yesterday with the first person to ever get arrested for BASE jumping off El Cap. We discussed this case of course. We also discussed the brief legalization and his input on why it was de-legalized in short order. A large percentage of the BASE jumpers just refused to follow even simple rules like having to jump before a certain time in the morning, as well as a few other reasonable guidelines. Chaos ensued. People were jumping off anything they wanted at any time of the day without a permit, so the privilege was taken away. They basically blew their opportunity. Should this tried again? I don't know.
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Bullwinkle
Boulder climber
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Aug 30, 2010 - 10:31am PT
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if you stayed away, one less tool. . .
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 30, 2010 - 10:42am PT
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Karl Baba: It's my observation that there is a fundamental difference between the culture and attitudes of hang-gliders vs BASE jumpers. Gliders tend to follow rules. A segment of BASE jumpers prefer not to.
Probably some truth in that, but the gliders have more legal places to fly and I imagine it would be harder to glide away from the rule enforcers than fly away in a few seconds and disappear. I hear the jumpers did abuse their privileges.
It's probably worth noting that in the minds of the NPS, Backpackers tend to follow the rules while some climbers prefer not to. This was the old mindset anyway. Now climbers and NPS have got more cooperative, work together on access issues, and don't play as many games of hide as seek. That could happen with the jumpers as well as their sport matures and they want access.
Peace
Karl
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pc
climber
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Aug 30, 2010 - 10:49am PT
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Bullwinkle, You're truly one sour mofo.
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Douglas Rhiner
Mountain climber
Tahoe City/Talmont , CA
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Aug 30, 2010 - 12:08pm PT
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Agreed, hate the anonymous sh#t talking, wish everyone just posted with their real names
YES!
And please start with yourself!
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Scared Silly
Trad climber
UT
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Aug 30, 2010 - 12:32pm PT
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At the New there is Bridge Day where it is legal to jump from the bridge. It is a huge boom for the area.
http://www.officialbridgeday.com/
Perhaps there needs to be a El Cap jump day. Once a year anyone who wants to jump can jump. The rest of the year - off limits.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 30, 2010 - 12:46pm PT
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I was thinking the same thing as SS.
Jump Day.
Can a squirrel suit be made taser-resistant?
Let the games begin,..
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 30, 2010 - 12:51pm PT
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So if they have one day a year what are they going to do with all the body
bags the rest of the year? And what happens if on the annointed day the
RangerJumpMaster decides the winds aren't right or there aren't enough
Turoids clogging the meadow - a riot on top of El Cap?
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Aug 30, 2010 - 01:13pm PT
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'Now what could have mean old Ammon done to deserve this," Well phrased, Coz.
Could he have been tased to prevent, a jump?
I like banded, too. Makes me think of that guy in Snow Crash who had "poor impulse control" tatooed across his forehead.
"Excuse me, hate to interupt, but it's against the law to jump off this bridge...
Say Uncle and we'll take you to the mental health Zoo" Jello Biafra,
-maybe he should conduct sensitivity training seminars for LEO's?
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Aug 30, 2010 - 01:18pm PT
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It doesn't take a genius to understand that after jumping off a 3000' cliff and landing, a person is going to AMPED on adrenaline and thus primed for a fight or flight response.
Any LEO policy that ignores that, and a "detain by any means necessary" policy on apprehending a base jumper does ignore that fact, is creating more problems than it's solving.
And you tool apologist claiming that tazers are safe need to do some elementary research.
From Amnesty:
"Since June 2001, more than 351 individuals in the United States have died after being shocked by police Tasers. Most of those individuals were not carrying a weapon."
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bmacd
climber
Relic Hominid
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Aug 30, 2010 - 01:21pm PT
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monetize el cap base jumping with a permit system and schedule jumps for the tourons to gawk at
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pc
climber
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Aug 30, 2010 - 01:26pm PT
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Would it still be against the law if the chute was just a safety device in case a climber fell off El Cap? 'Officer, I was just topping out when I greased off...'
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 30, 2010 - 01:30pm PT
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pc, your idea wrongly assumes that rangers employ logic.
In Valley of Fire state park climbing is not prohibited however, in the interest of safety, one is not permitted to climb with a rope.
I kid you not.
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