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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Aug 22, 2005 - 02:52am PT
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I asked the same question about the hooks on P4 of ZM and would hasten to bet that you did too.
The response I was given was, yeah they were pretty good, but I took a 40ft head first whipper onto the belay.
needless to say I haven't been on it yet.
Don't tell me you've never been nervous about a route before you jumped on it and asked questions about it. I have nothing but respect for that, trying to make an informed decision. It's no reason to be rude to a brother.
I once asked you a bunch of questions about soloing Mescalito, and you didn't say "if you have to ask..." Don't know why you would now. Still have your replies im my rc.com Inbox, and the tone is quite different.
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Holdplease2
Trad climber
All over
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Aug 22, 2005 - 02:56am PT
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Ha ha haaaah.
P4 ZM, I can proudly say that I did not lead that. And no, I did not ask the question about the hooks, as I was unaware of the severity just by looking at the topo. A friend gave me generalized beta on the route, which I thought was sufficient.
I think on some routes, if you ask, you can get one answer and it will settle...yes they are bomber, no they are thin, yes, that bit is reachy. With this one, there was just so much hooking. It was really the only "hard" skill you need, maybe some beaking. With consequences
Thats the difference with Mescalito, there were a few tight spots and a few skills, no real carnage unless you completely blow it. Plus, you and I almost know each other, we could be considered "trusted sources", really, know what I mean?
I was just trying to be 100% clear about how it was, that if you question your hooking (not that he does, I read it into his response) that maybe this wouldn't be fun, and I guess I said it the wrong way.
-Kate.
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Aug 22, 2005 - 03:05am PT
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Are you done changing your last post yet?
oh well, whatever. Lets keep the conversation in context.
He asked about hooks above the ledge. I assume worried about a ledge fall potential, which I also assume maybe he's using as criteria to decide about doing the route or not. Smart I think.
Anyway I know I ask the same kind of questions, because I worry about such things and select my routes carefully (i.e. I climb easy shit). Not sure If I'd want to climb up crubling hook moves above a ledge either.
How many people have climbed Roullete? Probly not very many really, at least that you'd find on the internet. So here he is lucky enough to find you, and hoping to find out about those hook moves that may raise the bar above his ledge fall comfort level.
Or maybe not, how do I know. Maybe he's some gumby from the Midwest with a shinny new Supertopo book. Or maybe I am just jonesing to start palanning my own wall climb.
Like flamer said, I can tend to be a bit of an ass sometimes. But lately I have been trying to reserve my being an ass to coming to the defense of others only...
I agree that A3 is a very vague rating. Like I doubt the A3 on the Shield is the same as on Roulette, or even close.
Hey do you think I could make it up the Nose in a day this September, I have been climbing in the gym alot lately and just got that yellow V4 finally! What do ya think?
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Holdplease2
Trad climber
All over
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Aug 22, 2005 - 03:11am PT
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Dude, like did you send the yellow before they tightened the screw on the foot chip? Because, like, that will make all the difference. Be sure to wear your testarosas!
From what I saw of your sending attempts on that pink 5.7 in the corner, tho, you're all but ready for the king swing... ;)
Time to start the planning for the fall season!
Nitey nite!
-Kate.
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macgyver
Social climber
Oregon, but now in Europe
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Aug 22, 2005 - 04:36am PT
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Roulette. I was climbing on the Tower when a gal was working on it (not Kate). Tough little chica with dreads. She was confident and very scared after taking a big head first whipper. She pulled some loose flakes (while I ducked underneath) and can say that she did not appear to be having a good time on the first 4 pitches.
No one....and I stress no one...has ever told me that route is a breeze at A3++++. If the first pitch doesn't get your undies in a bundle...then you probably are not of normal mortal stock.
I don't know if the girl topped out but I can say that I have never heard more nervous chatter from a leader while hooking away from death. Also she blew a flake while on it and somehow kept it together on the hook she was standing on. If you have balls/ovaries that big....rock on
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Holdplease2
Trad climber
All over
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Aug 22, 2005 - 11:44am PT
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That was my friend, Cybele. I saw the massive fall on day 1 and the rock that was holding the pro below her (which ripped) whipping past the belay where I was hanging with her BF having a smoke after fixing for the day. She was top stepping a hook and it blew.
I couldn't believe how fast she was back on the rock.
I didn't hear about the sh#t coming down on Day 2 of that lead, as I wasn't there. She posted in another thread it was like 18 hours on P2 or something like that. There's a tough girl, tell you what, she and he are couple of fantastic people to spend time with.
-Kate.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Aug 22, 2005 - 11:58am PT
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You aids climbers are a sick bunch.
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macgyver
Social climber
Oregon, but now in Europe
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Aug 22, 2005 - 01:29pm PT
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DANG IT! So I barely missed crossing paths with the Great Kate aka HoldPlease2. Damn. Could of had nice timeout as well it sounds like.
I ran into her (Cybele) in the mountain shop and we chatted about adjustable daisies and how I am a metolius fan and for what reasons and how I cut my strap so I don't thread my aider through it blah blah blah.
She was totally cool and totally pumped up. She spoke highly of you as well.
She pulled a rock after a long conversation with her boyfriend on how loose it was and what she should do. His comment was if its going to blow now it is going to blow on a later day...so yank it off. She called ROCK! but we were right underneath the route and ducked under the overhang. It is amazing how much LT overhangs since the rock fell quite away from the wall.
What an allstar...did she get to the top? I was so impressed that she was going up there again...totally cool
McG
EDIT: I apologize for the atrocious grammar in the above post. I have been working in another language all day and my brain is not switching to English very quickly. Argh.
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Holdplease2
Trad climber
All over
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Aug 22, 2005 - 05:45pm PT
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She didn't summit, bud did finish what I felt was the crux pitch, and after that, its alll gravy, anyway. Time constraints limited their climbing....but not their fun, we all hung out for several nights and it was a blast!
:)
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Aug 22, 2005 - 11:19pm PT
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I found some of the tricky hooking on Zed-Em to be on the fifth pitch, not the fourth, although my notes say that on P4 I made a really high topstep off a hook to a fixed head. Maybe if that fixed head were gone?
The fifth pitch of Zed-Em was fairly spicy - however I rated it NTB [but DFU] and not even NTB+ or PDH-. To me, it didn't seem that bad. Yeah, there were 10 or 11 hook moves in a row, but I left a few hooks for pro along the way [I was out of duct tape, and it was here I figured out how well prusiks hold down your hook + screamer pro combo when you're soloing]. I recall the rock I was hooking, and the hook placements, to be reasonably solid - you just have to feel around with your fingertips to make sure you find the "sweet spot" on the edge, and make damn sure you select the right hook. That's why I carry three sets, so I can leave a few for pro every now and then. I also remember this really dirty mantel at the end of the hooking that had me sh|tting myself above all those hooks!
What you describe on Roulette sounds harder than P5 of Zed-Em.
P8 of Zed-Em was what gave me a bit of bother - took a 25-footer when the thousand-pound block I was nailing decided to part company with the wall, along with me attached to it. I still have the scar on my elbow as the block merely grazed me on its way down.
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 22, 2005 - 11:26pm PT
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Oh ho man!
I read that one, "Oh yeah, go f*#k yourself, lameboner.” Kate.
Ha ha ha LOL!!!!
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ricardo
Gym climber
San Francisco, CA
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Aug 23, 2005 - 07:29pm PT
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i'm more interested on what kate's experience on roulette was? --
whats the story? ..
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Holdplease2
Trad climber
All over
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Aug 24, 2005 - 07:27am PT
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Hey Ricardo:
There's no actual climbing story, that part of it went well, no falls (thankfully), fixed and then fired to the top. I thought it was hard, but that's not always bad.
Heres what got to me.
I didn't drop the lines I fixed b/c the route is too overhanging, they would have gone into the trees. I went back several days later to get them.
When I jugged the lines I took about 45 minutes just to look at the route and enjoy the space.
It isn't often that you can get out of the moment and go back later and look at what you climbed on a wall, and compare it to what you think your skill-level actually is, and how much you may have been counting on luck to compensate.
It made me feel kind of sick and I took some time to re-evaluate what I am willing to risk for a weekend of fun.
-Kate.
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cybele
Ice climber
finally, west of the Mississippi
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Aug 24, 2005 - 01:57pm PT
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Hi y'all
If I had seen the old A4+ rating on my pitches I would have never started on the route. I've discussed with a wall vet his opinion regarding the nifty new Mac rating that Roulette is not yet travelled enough, with lots of rotten rock around still, and such nice old bolts/rivets (Leeper-hangered 1/4 buttonhead, isn't that how it's called, the piece halfway up the pitch, below the crux, which caught both me and Ammon so far), and several spots of real consequence, that the new A3 rating really isn't the exact right flavor. I was fooled (and foolish). I think if I hadn't fallen P2 would have been 6+ hours for me (though Kate knocked it off in 2 hours and in good style, damn).
Sorry to rehash an old post but I am laughing how 8 hours of actual climbing progress becomes 11 when the BF vents his natural frustration, then becomes 14 when the buddy makes a petty post about it, then becomes 18 when the story is retold. Hell it took me 3 DAYS to get up that fkr, honestly!!! (There was the free climbing day head-adjustment day in between efforts). I would have certainly tackled my other pitches on the route had not partner's time constraints because of El Cap plans interfered, though I admit I was finding the second pitch "less than fun." I'm going back to trade routes now, thank you very much.
Yeah for the Metolius adjustable daisy.
So Kate does your last post mean you will not be soloing Sheep Ranch or Native Son this fall? Come on! You aced that rotten Roulette in wicked style. Just be careful out there, would ya? We like you.
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irondog
climber
fresno
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Aug 27, 2005 - 01:15am PT
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Man,
I thought the route was great. Did it over Memorial weekend. Some of the best thin nailing around. Thought the difficulty and danger was on par with ZM, but way less fixed gear on roulette. The 5th and 6th pitches are mega classic. If ZM is considered A4 it seems impossible not to rate Roulette A4. BTW, one of the belay bolts on pitch 6 blew while I was hauling, some belay bolts could stand to be replaced. Also, I found the hooking on Reanimater to be significantly more difficult than the hooks on Roulette. A3?
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Jonny D
Social climber
Lost Angelez, Kalifornia
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Aug 30, 2005 - 12:53am PT
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how'bout some photos? I'm kinda curious, I belayed Earl on the first pitch (first ascent) long long time ago.
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can't say
Social climber
Pasadena CA
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Aug 31, 2005 - 03:32pm PT
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Here's a couple of pics courtsey of E.
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Jonny D
Social climber
Lost Angelez, Kalifornia
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Aug 31, 2005 - 10:13pm PT
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Thanks, looks very cool and plenty steep. Is that a ledge he's sitting on in the top pic?
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James
Gym climber
City by the Bay
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Aug 31, 2005 - 11:21pm PT
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finally some worthwhile spray and slandering...now if it was only about freeclimbing.
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Levy
Big Wall climber
So Calif
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The posts above perfectly illustrate how fas "SuperTYPO" has slipped in the last year. I thought the question was a fair one. All the guy asked for was a bit of beta but instead he gets a sanctimonious lecture from one respondent and a bunch of lame BS from most of the others who posted. Seems like a bunch of "player haters" out there!
I've got to point out that this forum is for the dissemination of information. Comments like "dude, if you have to ask, don't go", or "C'mon, a girl did it", have no place here unless you're here to beat your chest.
Why not trying to be helpful instead?
I did the route in July of this year and I thought it was harder than the new Mac rating of A3. I thought it was more like A3+/A4-. There's loads of fixed heads all over the place but many are old and are starting to rust on their cables. Most of what the topo shows as rivets are really Z-mac rivets which are very low strength. Most belays were decent. The rach Mac recommends is OK but I'd recommend bringing a 3" cam as well. I believe my partner & I never placed any babies or sawed offs but we did use lots of beaks, rurps and some LA's. Most pitches could be climbed with the is-situ fixed gear and clean gear.
The sun hits at around 1:30 pm and it seems a bit warmer on Roulette then on "Wet Denim" or "WFLT". There's a decent ledge under the Battle Of The Bulge but the one above in just a footstance. The ledge 1 pitch below the top is nice too but you'll need a ledge to sleep there as it's too sloping to be comfortable.
Enjoy!
Levy
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