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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Jul 21, 2009 - 12:14pm PT
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I'd rather buy climbing gear made by climbers who get paid a fair wage. The other option is to buy gear made in poor conditions with no environmental controls by chinese factory workers who probably don't know what it is for, so that BD can make more money and move US jobs overseas.
I have bought my last BD Camalot. There are plenty made in USA options like Metolius, CCH and Omega. I don't mind supporting our climbing brothers in Wales.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Jul 21, 2009 - 12:17pm PT
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Are dual-axle link cams a possibility?
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Jul 21, 2009 - 12:19pm PT
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"The other option is to buy gear made in poor conditions with no environmental controls by chinese factory workers who probably don't know what it is for"
caughtinside...I'm thinking that that the only cams on my rack (probably) that are made in the US are my aliens. (Perhaps my one Link Cam is made in the OP prison program, but I'd be surprised.)
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apogee
climber
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Jul 21, 2009 - 12:20pm PT
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"Do most consumers consider Chinese manufacturing to be inferior to American products?"
In my experience, in general, items manufactured in China are of inferior quality. Add to this the labor abuses, environmental abuses, and the 'cost distribution' that occurs due to offshore manufacturing, when I see 'Made in China' on anything, I am turned off.
Supporting manufacturers who do not extensively or entirely off-shore manufacture to has become an important criteria in my selection process.
I, too will look forward to seeing how these cams work out- it would be nice to have an alternative (or something superior) to the BD-China made options.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Jul 21, 2009 - 12:25pm PT
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Hi Melissa,
OP discontinued their prison labor program several years ago, prior to the introduction of the Link cam.
I emailed OP a while back to find out if the Links are made in the US. The response I got was that yes, they are, except for a couple small parts that are machined in Europe (not sure which parts those are) but they say Made in US on the tag.
Due diligence thus performed, I got one. And it is awesome, straight up crux magic!
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FeelioBabar
climber
Sneaking up behind you...
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Jul 21, 2009 - 12:32pm PT
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BD products in China are still made by climbers with the same ISO certs that they were made in the US. It's just that simple. Most are just assemblies anyway...with the parts being made in the US.
All this "I won't buy BD" spray is so F%&!ING stupid....better give up yer cars, and damn near everything else you own and enjoy, too. Probably from the same people bitching that the units cost too much.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Jul 21, 2009 - 12:38pm PT
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Just your opinion Feelio... Given the option I'd rather support a company that makes stuff here, I don't think someone is a bad person or anything for liking and buying BD stuff.
I think that BD does produce many things in the US still. I believe C3s and BD biners are made in the US?
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apogee
climber
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Jul 21, 2009 - 12:42pm PT
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"....better give up yer cars, and damn near everything else you own and enjoy, too."
That is sadly very true. It sounds as though you've given in to the globalization of our consumerism and really don't have much regard for where your stuff comes from, as long as it's as inexpensive as possible, and you can get it easily.
As futile as it seems to be these days, I still strive for a higher ideal, ridiculous as that might seem.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Jul 21, 2009 - 12:42pm PT
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Buying stuff made in the US is a good idea for a lot of reasons.
That being said, Chinese manufacturing has come a long ways. For instance, the Chinese made Hondas rate higher for reliability now than either the Japanese or US made Hondas. They have for a number of years now. Been telling people that China is the sleeping giant for years... The machine is starting to roll.
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FeelioBabar
climber
Sneaking up behind you...
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Jul 21, 2009 - 12:43pm PT
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Actually that is a FACT regarding BD manufacturing processes.
OPINION would be that my C4's and C3's are the best units out there.
YMMV.
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Scared Silly
Trad climber
UT
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Jul 21, 2009 - 12:47pm PT
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One also needs to look at the factories and whether the company owns them or they are out sourced.
Wallyfart mart outsources so much their crap that it is crap. Other companies like BD own the factory outright so have a vested interest. I guess we need labels like those on cars Assembled in the USA from parts that originated in Japan.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Jul 21, 2009 - 12:48pm PT
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Yeah, my mileage varies. I love the c4s (bought before production offshored to china) but you can keep those overpriced underperforming stiff stemmed C3s.
EDIT: I'm not sure what you mean by it's a fact that BD cams are made in china by climbers. Are we exporting climbers to China now? Or are those factory workers also climbers? Or is there one American BD employee over there who supervises the 100 chinese assembly workers?
Sorry, but your FACT doesn't explain much. So BD makes C4 parts here, ships them halfway across the world where they are assembled, and then shipped back?
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Jul 21, 2009 - 12:52pm PT
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Unfortunately, a part of this equation too is that the US needs to get it's sh#t back in order. Fact is, we suck ass at a lot of thigns we used to be pretty good at. Manufacturing is one of them. Where the US used to be at the top of the game in the world in so many areas, we have fallen way behind.
So, in the case of cars, as mentioned above, I'd prefer my parts/cars to be made in Japan. That way I know they will last. That way I know there's not pre-destined failure built into them to get more $$$ out of me at the dealership. It really doesn't have so much to do with cheaper, as it does with following reliability.
edit: agree, caught - C3's suck.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jul 21, 2009 - 01:01pm PT
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There are alot of people in China maybe they do have a factory full of climbers... yeah, that sounds like a likely fact.
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FeelioBabar
climber
Sneaking up behind you...
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Jul 21, 2009 - 01:03pm PT
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Yes. The workers in the factory are almost all climbers/outdoor enthusiasts. BD owns the factory. People that want to believe BD is running a sweat-shop will never believe anything different. Decide for yourself, but at least make an educated decision based on real facts, not assumptions.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Jul 21, 2009 - 01:05pm PT
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Fair enough, and thank you for the information. That said, when given the choice, I prefer to buy outdoor goods produced by American outdoor enthusiasts. Which is getting more difficult to do all the time.
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apogee
climber
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Jul 21, 2009 - 01:12pm PT
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"...I prefer to buy outdoor goods produced by American outdoor enthusiasts."
Canada and UK is good, too...
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msiddens
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Jul 21, 2009 - 01:44pm PT
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looks like another winner. It's good to have choices!!!!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jul 21, 2009 - 01:48pm PT
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Here is a pair of diagonal cutters made in China for Cratfsman. Cheap alloy doesn't hold to normal use.
I have also had other tools break or fall apart that were made in China. Never again!
Maybe BD has oversight of materials used and their great quality control. I just will not trust my life to hardware (or anything for that matter) made in China.
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malabarista
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Jul 21, 2009 - 01:50pm PT
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I definitely will choose something made in America even if it costs more if the quality is equal or better to Chinese or other Asian made. I would probably buy the DMM over a Chinese made Camalot if quality is similar.
It's a matter of principle. I'd rather give someone a job in this country or in a western country where I can be reasonably sure a fair wage is being paid. I'd like the opportunity, if I wanted it, to work such a job in my own country. I'd rather see us make things here and encourage craftsmen here. And I can afford it.
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