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Griff
Social climber
Felton, PA
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I have that guide book also.
That was a fun place to climb.
You know. For PA.
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blackbird
Trad climber
the flat water trails...
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Dec 10, 2008 - 03:17pm PT
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Prod -
Since you asked, I've been guilty of implementing said belay while climbing in NC.
weird...
Too lazy to drive that far or run that fast now, tho!
BB
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
thats what she said...
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Dec 10, 2008 - 05:35pm PT
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admittedly, i am no physics professor, but wouldnt a running belay (the kind where the belayer is jumping off a ledge, not simply letting some rope "run through")increase the pulley effect on the uppermost piece of pro?
or would that extra force be negligible, or perhaps worth the risk in comparison with a certain grounder?
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ricardo
Gym climber
San Francisco, CA
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Dec 10, 2008 - 05:47pm PT
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psshhhh ..
.. i don't buy that illustration for a minute .. i mean .. c'mon .. when was the last time you were belayed by a horse?
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Chris2
Trad climber
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Dec 10, 2008 - 06:03pm PT
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If you are belaying on the ground and there is NO chance of shifting the placement (ie. a bolt), or you have placed a solid directional, and you can run in such a way that the leader does not fall into the rope...you should run!
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Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
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Dec 10, 2008 - 08:25pm PT
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Nice graphic!!!!
HAAH
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RRK
Trad climber
Talladega, Al
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Dec 10, 2008 - 11:13pm PT
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as someone noted earlier, it is in fact useful at Stone Mtn NC, which is a friction slab with only a handful of bolts on the entire rock and with runouts of 50-80 feet being common. Falls are more like sliding at a very high rate of speed, and an alert belayer can haul-ass through the bushes and reel-in a substantial amount of rope while the leader is busy doing the "Oh-No". I can't imagine it working if the leader is plunging. If I'm the one catching then it wouldn't be a "running" belay unless someone released a pack of dogs on me at the precise instant that the leader launched his shot (otherwise they would call it the "waddling-and-wheezing belay)
RRK
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Lorenzo
Social climber
Oregon--formerly DC area
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Dec 19, 2008 - 09:15pm PT
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Done properly, you can (I have) stop a faller at the bolt at Stone if he's 40 ft out.
Eric forgot to mention on that Stone Mountain trip that the belayer got hurt worse than the faller. Though his hands were toast (left little chunks of meat on the way down) she turned and started running - and ran into a tree.
She broke some ribs.
Mercury's lead.
Hi Eric! I got your card.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Apr 29, 2014 - 11:54pm PT
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I remember doing the N ridge of Mt Jefferson one cold icy winter. It was shallow ice coating the rock, and we had no ice screws or protection that would have worked on what should have been easy 4th class rock otherwise. We decided that jumping off the opposing side of the ridge would be the only method that would work to stop a leader groundfall. As it's many hundreds of feet down either side, and the path you are on is narrower than a foot in places, it seemed dicey, but would have been the only way to survive. Run and jump.
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KabalaArch
Trad climber
Starlite, California
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Apr 30, 2014 - 05:14pm PT
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This already posted, but is definitely apropos of this thread – loved the OP's guidebook excerpt.
So it's day 2 of Scott Burk's FA of The Token, which takes one of the steeper sections of the GPA base. It's July, and in the Valley that can mean 100F in direct sun. Scottie had drilled his 1st bolt in the (cooler) twilight day before; it's necessary to surmount the first 5.12 crux to get to it.
Yeah, I know, the almighty Guide not only down-rates it to .11d, but, evidently Burk's modesty resulted in a reappraisal of most every GPA route in that grading range. If anyone here's repeated The Token, then I'd love to hear your opinion.
Next morning we're out first thing. It's hot as blazes, and the glare off the stone is withering.
Scott came off at the location of the uppermost of...what? - 4 bolts in 160 feet? No warning whatsoever.
Plates had yet to come into popular usage, and ATC's still a futuristic dream. And a standing hip belay became a running belay. Never measured things out, but I think Scott flew from 2/3rds' height, traveled at least 60 feet airborne – this was not a slider – and avoided cratering by about a 10 or 12 foot margin.
I think I ran at least 20 feet downhill.
My wife was there to witness this little high wire performance. So was another party over right, near Lean Years or Green Dragon, and one of this pair has PM'd me regarding this accounting of what could have been an 80 foot free groundfall.
Scott brushed himself off, girded his loins, spat into both palms, and cast off again. He proceeded to reach his high point, pause in what was clearly the midst of a 5.11 sequence, and hand drill a bolt.
I guess in this day and age it's noteworthy that while The Token joins a stance common to Chiropodist's Shop 5.11+. and Ephemeral Clog Dance, also 5.11+, and so could have easily been rap bolted via access from the easier, adjoining routes, it was strictly a ground-up proposition.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Apr 30, 2014 - 05:20pm PT
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Caught a 40+ footer at pinnacles.
I had time to run as he was bouncing down a moss water streak.
It saved him from a ledge strike.
I ran about 20+ feet backward.
Awesome scratch marks when I cleaned the pitch.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Apr 30, 2014 - 05:30pm PT
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mucci,
Wasn't the plan on The Will to Live that I had to jump off the ledge if you came off before you drilled the second bolt? I seem to recall something like that over there with you.
kev
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Apr 30, 2014 - 05:38pm PT
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Someone told me that is how you belay someone on "Gone in 60 Seconds", to keep them from decking after the first bolt. "Run like a bat out of hell!" I believe were the words. Perhaps he has this same guide?
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jstan
climber
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Apr 30, 2014 - 05:55pm PT
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Now that we are talking about Scotty. I saw but could hardly believe that video of Scotty rescuing that drunken idiot by jugging up a rope held by an anchor rigged by that same idiot.
Scotty is way rad gnarl IMO.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Apr 30, 2014 - 05:57pm PT
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Kev-
Tip, the joys of ground up/ ground fall 2nd clips
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KabalaArch
Trad climber
Starlite, California
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Apr 30, 2014 - 08:58pm PT
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But, we're not talking about great Scott.
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thebravecowboy
climber
in the face of the fury of the funk
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Apr 30, 2014 - 11:03pm PT
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Dunno about using it in "all occasions" like the article says, but I do know that I am pretty fond of the indomitable Dave P for taking in additional slack at a certain critical juncture in my life. Pretty f*#king fond. As in lottery fond. Those extra feet made a big difference.
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Evel
Trad climber
Nedsterdam CO
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Apr 30, 2014 - 11:18pm PT
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Well Far Out! Not sure how I missed this thread before.
The "Running Belay" we employed at Bellefonte and Stone Mtn. was very useful in taking up slack. Sometimes lots of slack. There is however a rub. You must have a directional at the base of the pitch in order for it to work effectively.
Ah the Good ole days.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 30, 2014 - 11:50pm PT
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Me and Cashner were at the base of the footstool and Cashner was belaying Bachar.
Bachar was on an insane long run-out face moves during a new route attempt.
Sudden John yells down "Get ready to run!!!!"
Me and Rick look at each other with the "Oh sh!t!!! look".
But John made it past the death fall section thus we didn't have to run .....
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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As noted above, the British considered a "running belay" to be anything mid-pitch that protected the leader. The term "runner" came from that usage. On this side of the Ditch, a belay on static rope where the belayer intentionally let the rope slide was a "dynamic belay," and, as noted was used by the Sierra Club RCS in the 1930's.
Now Tom Patey, on the other had, had the following definitions of note, among others:
"Running belay" -- a cowardly second.
"Thread belay" -- an asphyxiated second (caused by a slow third man and a very fast leader).
Modern ideas of sexism preclude my repeating his definition for a "psychological belay."
John
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