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jbar
Ice climber
(home description... adjective, adjective, sensor
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at fellow students in high school . . .
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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It must suck to have to carry a gun to feel safe in a National Park.
you're a knee-jerk lib missing the point, some people have to carry weapons for personal safety. This allows them to enter w/o BS.
EDIT: Some people also still believe in the 2nd Amd.
2ndEDIT: if Sean Penn goes into the NP, can he carry?
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perswig
climber
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Tami, for pushing the Lois button, an appropriate mark will be made in your permanent record.
Dale
Edit: officials rule unintentional; 5 yards and replay the down. Always interesting to hear Tami. LEB, not so much.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Thank you perswig. People should know better.
I went to sleep early after emailing the link of this thread to a friend.
I woke to the following response; "Its already devolved into drivel. I can't even bother to troll"
Too phucking true.
What the hell is WITH you people?
This was a discussion about the parks now honoring a state issued license. You know, a document like one of those things that allows you to operate a "motor vehicle" in the parks. You know, one of those rolling transporting devices that kills 53,000 americans each year...
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MisterE
Trad climber
My Inner Nut
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Rex Kwan Do will help you keep your gun:
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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It must suck to have to carry a gun to feel safe in a National Park.
"you're a knee-jerk lib missing the point, some people have to carry weapons for personal safety. This allows them to enter w/o BS. "
bluering do you realize how much you read into my reply due to your brainwashing?
I'm a centrist. You've be led to believe everyone who isn't a gun-toting, right winger is a lib. I have guns and believe everyone has the right to have them, with sensible limits.
I only said it must suck to feel so scared you need to carry a gun. I didn't say everyone shouldn't be able to. The thought of carrying around a heavy loaded pistol all the time instead of relying on my good sense and awareness to stay safe seems pretty sad to me. Of course there are exceptions, e.g. a woman with a restraining order against a violent ex.
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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As mentioned you can't carry in Mexico. no 2nd amendment there.
But Baja Norte is one place I may want to carry, with the armed carjackers and kidnappers of the last few years.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Like I said Tami, its not exactly Shangra-la.
Although most of the times I've been threatened by a person with a lethal weapon have been outside of a national park, once I was threatened in Zion.
Long story short; he thought twice about bringing a knife to a gunfight, and I resolved to attempt to try to contain myself better when a blowhard with little regard or courtesy toward other park visitors puffs up his chest and "brags" about being from Texas.
Never even had to brandish, my words were convincing enough, but it is NOT something you should bluff at.
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BrassNuts
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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This is great news - last time I was on El Cap I could have really used a gun! I figured I could just shoot at that blank seam and place a nice copper head... would that still be 'clean aid'?? ............ bwahhh
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cragnshag
Social climber
san joser
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If a person has a concealed/carry permit, then they have already gone thru a rigorous background check. They also know the "rules" about when to draw (brandish) their weapon.
Allowing them to carry a concealed weapon in Yosemite is just an extension of the right granted to them by their home county.
If some people don't think they could carry a gun without it getting taken away by a bad guy, then maybe they shouldn't carry a gun. No one is forcing you to have a gun.
However, many intelligent, respectable citizens have made the personal choice to carry. What makes this country great is that we have choices. Yes, there are downsides to some of our freedoms, but I think I would prefer more freedoms in a slightly more dangerous world than have the government restrict my freedoms "for my own good."
(climbing tie-in since this is a climber's forum)
What if the government banned all trad climbing because it is less "safe" than sport climbing. Just because the risks involved in trad climbing are greater, does that mean those who want to do it should be prevented from doing it?
With few exceptions, the act of extending personal freedoms is always "better" than restricting them. How about other restrictions that some folks in society want to impose on others? Like restricting abortion or marriage?
How about those attacks in Mumbai? 10 primitive a-holes strolled into a public place and started killing. They killed an average of 15 people each. Had there been a few locals with C/C permits the death toll would have been far less. At the very least an armed civilian (with likely a smaller weapon w/ less ammo) could have kept the bad guys pinned down a little longer, buying some time before the police arrive.
Where I live (South Bay Area) the government feels like I shouldn't be granted a C/C permit. So if want to carry a gun, all of a sudden I'm the criminal. If I lived in a different county, I'd be allowed to apply for a permit. Are the supervisors of this other county just not as smart or "wise" as Bay Area supervisors..... or do they cherish personal freedom a little more?
Thugs and gangbangers get to carry guns all they want because they really don't care about the law.... In reality, as long as they're not in jail, they "enjoy" more freedom than the rest of us. I'd like to see Al-Quida attack a Toys R Us in a rough neighborhood......
I challenge anyone who thinks that C/C is a bad idea to find cases where citizens with permits committed crimes with their guns, improperly brandished their guns, or had their guns taken away from them by the bad guy.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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The supervision was done by people over drinking age.
I question the "adult" part though.
Tragic.
I'd be all FOR banning guns from idiots if there were only a way.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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"You've be led to believe everyone who isn't a gun-toting, right winger is a lib."
Really? That's news to me.
Maybe you should re-read the f*#king article, Johnson. The new rule only allows sensible people (C/C permit holders) to continue to carry in parks.
What's the f*#king problem with that? Are they going to endanger 'precious resources' or people?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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He's not the only one, Chris2.
Lots of libs like the idea, but I do too.
Lets see,.. if I discounted to $3,000/ bullet could I still be a billionaire?
Just on .22lr I could buy a ship.
Save the good stuff for the somalian pirates.
Jeez, I miss Ouch.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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What dangers would you experience in a shopping mall?
or a Denny's.
maybe we should just ban all guns and just let criminals have them.
Point is, if you have a f*#king permit to carry, why should a National Park void that permit. IT'S A PERMIT TO CARRY A LOADED FIREARM, IDIOTS!!!! HE WAS CHECKED OUT THOUROUGHLY, THAT'S WHY HE HAS A PERMIT!!!!!!!!!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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none, but that's not the issue.
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adam d
climber
CA
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stzzo...the Yos naturalist comment probably references the actual murder of YI naturalist Joie Armstrong back in '99. Very tragic. Same guy also murdered 3 other women last seen in El Portal.
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Face it, you have to be at least a little unstable to believe you have to armed at all times.
Why do you think they call themselves gun nuts?
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Ten years of data?
Reads like a typical LA weekend of trouble caused by un-licensed carriers.
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