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BurnRockBurn
climber
South of Black Rock City
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Nov 21, 2008 - 03:41pm PT
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Jaybro
My Ex-wife taught nursing at a State University and didn't make Sheat. Had a masters degree vs my bach. and made 20 grand less a year plus she worked more.
Shawn
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Nov 21, 2008 - 04:04pm PT
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I've taught at the college level for nearly 25 years. If I had it to do over again I'd never go near a classroom. It's consuming. Instead, I'd spend summers in the Sierra and winters at jtree and sweep sidewalks in between. I wouldn't marry again either. Marriage is just a ruse for the redistribution of wealth and should be outlawed as a damned communist plot. Marriage and career put a real hitch in your climbing git-along...
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jstan
climber
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Nov 21, 2008 - 04:15pm PT
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FWIW
If you really want to climb the best you can you have what, 20 years of it? If you want just to get out, you can always do that whatever your profession.
Your profession has what, 50 years in it?
You have more than 2:1 leverage on the side of your career.
End of story.
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John Mac
Trad climber
Littleton, CO
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Nov 21, 2008 - 04:24pm PT
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I guided until my early 40's and it was a great career and I made good money. Plenty enough to buy a house, have a good car, etc. Now, I wasn't guiding in the States and I know the guiding career isn't as lucrative but if you were determined and wanted to guide rather than wanted to climb, then you could certainly do it.
To earn the "big bucks" I worked two winters a year (10 years without a summer in one stretch) and specialized in helicopter skiing. I would work 21 days on and 7 off during the winter. During the off weeks I caught up with sleep. In between seasons I pretty much private guided or worked for film companies. I was busy 9 to 10 months of the year with very few days off. Its a single person type of life.
Since I retired from guiding I now climb more than ever. If you want to climb a lot then don't go down the guiding route. You would be better off becoming an RN like Riley said. (My wife is a RN and works 3 x 12 shifts) However, if you want want to guide, to share you love of the outdoors with clients then go for it but realize that you need to become fully qualified to earn good money and be willing to live out of suitcase for much of the year.
Email me if you want more details.
Cheers
John
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Nov 21, 2008 - 04:28pm PT
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To kind of follow up on what jstan said, also remember that if your job sucks, your life probably will too. Climbing will do only so much to offset a lousy job or career.
The most rewarding job I've had was working in the Legal Dept. of a nonprofit. Downside was it paid only mid-20K. That was fine when I was young and had no debt or responsibilities. Totally wouldn't fly now. So, at some point, if you want the finer things in life you have to make a deal with the Man.
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
Gunks, NY
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2008 - 04:55pm PT
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Right now I am teaching at a junior college (first aid/cpr and all things red cross as well as a hiking class and basic wilderness skills) and they have a very good nursing program but it has a year and change long waiting list...I have heard that CNAs have similar benefits as a RN only I would guess they dont make quite as much.
As far as the guiding goes, I guess I would just like to be skillful enough to do it but not have to rely on it as a way to make a living. My wife is very open minded to my wanderlust but I have to draw the line somewhere...Although we are considering teaching English abroad...maybe Thailand?
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Nov 21, 2008 - 05:55pm PT
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I suggest in the end your decision should not base itself on economics, after all it’s a life not a business that we are talking about. Base it on sheer economics or mundane practicality and you may die inside and anyway money cannot point you any specific place, if you understand me.
Reaching much higher you have to try to find something, a profession, that you are really passionate about and want to basically devour. Really. This probably has to happen soon. I don’t care if its being a bank teller or a 5.16d world class climber----it is all the same if you have become thrilled most of the time to be involved in it. There are both thrilled bank tellers and burnt out top level climbers just as there are dead-at-heart tellers and top level climbers that actually are luminaries for millions of others.
If you choose something easily at hand that merely makes sense financially, namely is reasonably comfortable and has a future but that something is a field you basically are only going to be “visiting” and unengaged with, then your powers are going to be limited and in fact mediocre Porkchop, especially compared to others in that field who are thrilled to the gills to do what they are doing. Your strongest choice will be the one that engages you the most on the deepest levels. The hugest challenge is often just finding in the world, this passion. Making a direct and creative search for it. Many don’t or won’t.
This has always been Royal Robbins’ advice, by the way, and after hearing it “forrrever” from him, I in fact agree being now 60 years old. I became a builder and woodworker 38 years ago and now looking back only wish that I had done EVEN MORE of it to this date. And more to go still. Fortunately having started climbing in 1963 when I was not quite 15 years old and then climbing seriously for the next 20 years, I got climbing out of my system as something that would soley and fully house my soul forever or least while alive. I was terribly good but not good enough to just be inside climbing for the next 60 years. There are such people though and they are my heroes too.
Similarly, Antoine de Saint-Exupery said:
“If you want to build a ship, don’t drum up the men to gather wood, divide the work and give orders. Instead teach them to yearn for the vast and endless sea”
If climbing attracts you but not so much that it is ALL you can think about, nor are you very very very good at it, climbing constantly and networking tons and tons with other climbers then you are going to have to ask, just as contender athletes in all sports have to when they dream of the super bowl or the Olympics, “Am I really that talented, talented above almost all others I know that going ahead and trying for a full career in this sport is the strongest way of being---in short is this the best that I can do?”
And we have to acknowledge too that passions change in a long life and what we were once ardent over is eventually laid to rest for other additional and compelling subjects during all those years---so in short in the 21st century many of us are going to have multiple careers in our much longer lifetimes. So your choice can be "for now", a youthful choice!
best luck, ph.
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Nov 21, 2008 - 06:11pm PT
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Thanks for the reality check, black rock dude.
I love being a teacher, but it has it's own luggage, like anything else.
I've climbed for 45+ yrs, and followed various careers; just being Jaybro is the hardest, most demanding thing of all, though I can't do anything else.
I still go with the "Bliss" thing.
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Brian
climber
Cali
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Nov 21, 2008 - 06:13pm PT
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Another bump for teaching.
I worked as a guide for several years before going back to grad school. It was a fun experience, but I had some inchoate sense that something like Todd's account of things would prove true for me (no disrespect to all the great guides for whom it did not prove true). Teaching at the university is one of the best gigs I can imagine in terms of a fulfilling job with lots of flexibility in your schedule to allow for play. I can support my family, I make more money than we spend (we live reasonably simply), and I a climb and ski a bunch. I have time to climb during the week, on holidays, and I spent last summer living in Estes Park, the summer before that in Chamonix, etc., etc.
Not saying it is for everyone, but teaching ended up being a solid choice for me.
Brian
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Nov 21, 2008 - 08:05pm PT
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We’ve had a few similar threads on this topic: this is a very good one.
One of the other threads actually had “crossroads” in the title.
I was a professional guide here in the US: pure rock, no alpinism and no skiing, from '79 to '89. From what I gather the opportunity hasn’t changed that much and so it still seems a fairly threadbare coat to try to slip into.
On a personal level, as decisions go, that has proven not the smartest, the most practical nor the most beneficial of life decisions. But if I had the chance do it over again, given the same time and place (Yosemite, Taquitz, Joshua Tree), I’d do it again …just like Pavlov’s dogs!!!
From what everybody has said, for you, the nursing gig sounds enticing in terms of bang for the buck and ultimate flexibility. I’ve also heard that currently long waiting lists stand in the way of schooling.
Unless, as Peter Haan suggested, you have a passion, and that passion really is teaching. Clearly you had that idea in mind and that’s how you have positioned yourself. Maybe it’s time to really visualize exactly what you would be doing in either of those professions, ground-level day-to-day, and think about how those activities align with your personal gifts and inclinations.
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
Gunks, NY
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2008 - 08:42pm PT
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I would really like to thank you all for sharing your insight with me. I dont think I am much closer to a decision than ever before but it makes it a lot better, hearing the feedback from you all.
As far as passion goes, climbing is my passion. Not necessarily as a result of any athletic prowess, but rather what it has meant for me and has opened up for me in terms of general insight. I will most likely not be breaking any records or at least doing so is not my aim. I may do some things which fall under the category of "first Diabetic ascent" or something like that...but then again there are other Diabetics on here who pull a good bit harder than I so even that is a stretch.
My internal conflict is centered around whether making climbing a part of my career (guiding being the most obvious way, but also things like teaching climbing, running a gym, climbing as a PE elective for kids, etc) will make it just that: a career move. As a strict career move I know it will not be a great one.
Teaching I am good at but not wild about. Yet I know it would leave me the time and space to keep climbing as my passion.
The final what-if: What if mingling climbing with a career wouldnt negate the passion and all this waffling on my part denies me years of getting paid for my passion.
Just playing devils advocate. As i've said, each option looks good in certain lights, alternately appearing less than desirable; changing and flickering like a holographic image.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Nov 21, 2008 - 09:18pm PT
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"The philosophy companies arent hiring these days."
perhaps you should consider writing for Letterman.
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
Gunks, NY
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2008 - 09:28pm PT
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id love to write for anyone who would have me...a literary hooker of sorts...but its tough getting published unless you've already been published. Unless posting on the taco counts in that regard, I have little to go on. I may self publish some day though...
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Binks
Social climber
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Nov 21, 2008 - 09:29pm PT
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Nursing. Gotta love how a profession that takes only two years of education can pay so much. Bubble for sure. It will burst eventually.
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BurnRockBurn
climber
South of Black Rock City
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Nov 21, 2008 - 09:41pm PT
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Binks
You are correct that some nursing is a two year degree but to make the amount your referring to generally takes a 4 year degress such as mine. You also have a lot of training to do after said degree. As far as the bubble bursting do a little research and you will find there is a huge nursing shortage due to the baby boomers getting up there in age. The need for nursing will not end anytime soon.
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Boise
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Nov 21, 2008 - 09:45pm PT
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True story! A couple friends have turned that way. I think it's viable.
So there.Have a nice day.
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rockermike
Mountain climber
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Nov 21, 2008 - 10:01pm PT
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I might as well throw in my two bits worth here.
I started climbing as a teen and immediately loved it. Started informally guiding and teaching climbing as I (very slowly) worked my way through undergrad. Enjoyed the work for a time but it became clear that hand-holding beginners isn't as exciting as pushing one's own limit.
So next I went to business school and thought I'd make big bucks quickly then get back into climbing. Didn't happen that way and ended up in deathly boring corp finance jobs that neither paid well (mid class but not big bucks) nor satisfied the soul. And as someone else mentioned up thread, if its not your passion you aren't going to do well in any field.
15 years or so flies by and after daughter went off to school and wife kicked me out I went back to school in theology and religious history (life long interest). Loved the studying for a few years but there is no work in that field unless you have a PhD AND are a star in your field.
Now I'm back in the job market at 54 years. And no one wants a washed up finance guy nor a half baked theologian. And with two grad degrees I'm evidently "overqualified" for low level jobs.
Pitching carabiners and women's halter tops at REI may be the my next and final stop. (do they have retirement plans?) har har
I believe in chasing your dream but I don't necessarily believe things will work out as you planned. Hopefully someone else has higher plans . . .
sometimes I think Werner made the best choice of all. I don't know if he gets paid anything but he's out there all the time and presumably feeling good about it.
carry on
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Nov 21, 2008 - 10:23pm PT
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Absolutely, R-mike.
Werner has fashioned a huge life out what exactly mattered to him and was good for the rest of us as well. He is truly a national treasure, especially if he would STFU. Love him!!
best ph.
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Boise
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Nov 21, 2008 - 11:05pm PT
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RockerMike, Somebody's got to pitch that stuff. Why knot you?
You could be totin' rocks out of a Hole in Peru.
I'm just sayin'. There's worse.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Nov 21, 2008 - 11:09pm PT
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It’s funny (strange) but ultimately career decisions have to be based on passion. If you start second guessing yourself you’re done. I don’t think even ability counts as much as pure passion. If you have the drive, the love, the infatuation you will do well. You will have experiences that justify your effort and reconcile you to the possibility or perhaps the probability even the inevitability of failure. I think of artists like Van Gogh and Cezanne who started out with such clumsiness and ended up changing the way we see based on an almost pathological love for what they did. It’s the passion that is the gift; the career is always secondary.
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