Steve Grossman prophet of purity

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graniteclimber

Trad climber

Nowhere

Jan 17, 2008 - 11:36pm PT

Steve Grossman: "Funny that Richard had no qualms about passing my name around while drinking away with Warren and his girlfriend, Richard's mom. Where was the earnest and compelling concern for the horrors of alcoholism back then I wonder?"

This was how many years ago? Things are starting to make sense now. I guess Richard isn't the only one who has been holding a grudge for many years.

ionlyski

Trad climber

Kalispell, Montana

Jan 17, 2008 - 11:51pm PT

Gotta go with Steve on this one. Anyone, who likes to reflect on the good ol days and take the time to pull out classic photos and articles about cool stuff is AOK with me. And not the standard fluff either, but more of the obscure, less mainstream, good ol climbing, when the rewards were less obvious. Then again, maybe I'm just affected by that second beer after 9 glorious hours, going hard up in the middle fork, skiing up to my neck.

Cheers all,
Arne

darod

Big Wall climber

South Side Billburg

Jan 17, 2008 - 11:52pm PT

Steve, take it from a nobody, not any of your Valley Home Boys/Girls.

After all the evidence and witnesses have come out on the WoS issue, you sound like a neocon trying to tell us about weapons of mass destruction.

ZERO CREDIBILITY.

Make me sick really. This whole thing but particularly you, and others as well.

Leroy

climber

Topic Author's Reply - Jan 19, 2008 - 06:13am PT

Im not getting any satisfaction on this thread.This isnt another WOS thread.I want to see a manifesto on ethics .Old school doesnt mean anything.There are lots of old schools.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Jan 19, 2008 - 10:03am PT

Steve's made fine contributions on other topics around here, threads that aren't bicker-fests.

east side underground

Trad climber

crowley ca

Jan 19, 2008 - 10:55am PT

Who cares about arguments about ethics, Steve is a great guy who can climb in great style and with boldness matched by few. So he has his own opionions on style and ethics, who doesn't. I've done routes with Steve , and I am more than happy to rope up with him anytime or just hang out. Steve is the real deal- great friend,great climber!

Off White

climber

Tenino, WA

Jan 19, 2008 - 11:20am PT

Leroy, you can't get no

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Jan 19, 2008 - 11:24am PT

Leroy- sorry about your satisfaction level but what real interest do you have in roped climbing ethics being a man of the pad after all?!? "Only pussies toprope." You heard it straight from me.

GDavis

Trad climber

SoCal

Jan 19, 2008 - 11:28am PT

This thread needs more chest thumping.

Not to chime in, but wasn't Sea of Dreams considered a 'modern aid route?" If t hey failed horribly at that route, I could see that their line *might* not be as hard as touted (touted, of course, by those on the forums who have waltzed up and actually looked at it), however they did SoD... easily. Regardless of 'when,' might'n the sea of dreams logically than not be a large sized step in difficulty ahead of WoS?

Jaybro

Social climber

The West

Jan 19, 2008 - 11:53am PT

"When you're the world's most famous top roper, you take your own life in your hands every day." -I forget who said that...

-He did ask a fair question.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Jan 19, 2008 - 12:09pm PT

Richard and Mark had not done a modern aid route BEFORE heading up WOS. Establishing your credibility after the fact is one of the core problems with their approach.

Jaybro- And one to which he already fully knows the answer.

GDavis

Trad climber

SoCal

Jan 19, 2008 - 12:38pm PT

But they still did it, meaning that their skill was valid. I could see your point if they had FAILED, but what time they did it is irrelevant. Is the local ethic that before putting up a new route you have to prove to the yosemite homeless bums that you can pull their routes first? Did YOSAR own the rock?

PTPP can do all the searching he wants, there can be infinite amount of points drawn to an equally amount of infinite conclusions, but it all stems from this.

The hardest aid route on El Cap was done by somebody else.

Just like Bridwell threatened to break Dunn's arms for cosmos and everyone hated Barber, Valley locals just seem to not understand that there is talent outside those six square miles. Grow up!

:D

Mimi

climber

Jan 19, 2008 - 01:05pm PT

GDavis, these guys are very slow for one simple reason; they don't have it figured out even now. All of their routes collectively are botch jobs for the standard of the day from the point of view of a normal competent climber doing a new route on El Cap. Valley 'ownership' is a moot point. Their approach to climbing is the problem, not the locals.

And I'm hardly going to defend what Jim did by a long shot but Henry didn't have enemies when he came to the Valley, he made them by poaching other people's projects.

'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber

like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?

Jan 19, 2008 - 01:29pm PT

I don't know how many times I can repeat this, but I will yet again:

"WoS is emphatically not a botch job. I've been there, and from what I saw it was good craftsmanship, although I disagree with the Zed-macs. The Steel-to-Rock ratio [geez, I can't remember what we called that!] was minimized, and I don't see how anybody could have put up the route drilling any less. The hooking is sick, and you need a truly twisted sack to be able to put up a route like that. Had anyone else done the route, it is impossible for me to imagine them using as few rivets-bolts-micro-enhancements, let alone fewer."

I think it's bitchin' that a couple of nobodies could come in and really tick off the "holier-than-thou locals". It is ludicrous that someone must first "pay their dues" in order to "be permitted" to do something - ANYTHING - in climbing.

I would modify this stance if Mark and Richard had overbolted, but THEY DID NOT OVERBOLT.

Supertopo does not benefit from flame posts like this. Steve Grossman has done some great climbs, and made some great contributions to this forum. Why not end it now, please?

GDavis

Trad climber

SoCal

Jan 19, 2008 - 01:35pm PT

PTPP I'm boggled (boggled, I tell you!) that this is still an issue!

I may have been -2 years old when WoS went up, but after reading through just about everything there is on it (including a few excepts by Krakaur) it seems cut and dry.

"Steve Grossman has done some great climbs, and made some great contributions to this forum"

Damn straight -- Steve is a badass in his own right. Just misaligned at this topic ;D

Matt

Trad climber

primordial soup

Jan 19, 2008 - 01:49pm PT

if nothing else these threads are good for an occasional snicker:

"Pete- So thankful that I am not you."

ouch, that's gotta smart, at lesst a little

EDIT-
hey, those guys ever find their "lost" topo?

Mimi

climber

Jan 19, 2008 - 01:51pm PT

GDavis, now having an idea about your young age, it is much easier to understand your perspective and overall point of view about this controversy. Try going back in time when nothing this severe had happened before between the 'locals' and a couple of climbers trying to do a new route.

Jimmy Dunn and Bridwell are men who came together after that route despite the turf bravado. Bridwell actually came up with the name Cosmos when he offered his heartfelt congrats to Dunn on his solo FA.

It's pretty interesting that those guys dropped a crucial bag containing their only sharpening stones and well over 100 rivets at pitch 5. The decision to keep climbing and not retrieve this stuff was yet another botched decision. As soon as they began conserving rivets, then the batheads went in. The very batheads that apparently stopped Thaw's party. Just plain bad move on an FA, but then they were incompetent when they left the ground. Surely, they could've spared a half day to correct the problem, but no, upward they went, grimly.