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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 25, 2007 - 06:51pm PT
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sorry jody but you are mistaken. he is not my type.
i simply disagree with you and jennie (or just you if you are jennie). the senator screwed up. probably many times and got caught. thats not so bad. what is bad is the way that he professes family values then tries to hold hands under the stall.
i was also somewhat confused since whoever polices the site here deletes some threads but never says why. i also found all the articles from the idaho statesman paper to show that mr. craign has a long history concerning this and yet calls clinton a naughty boy? pretty damn hilarious and two faced.
i may not agree with all politicians but at least they can be straight up (i guess unless they are gay)but they ought to at least stop the moralizing about it.
who knows jody, maybe that can be your next ASSignment? busting guys while dressed as jennie?
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 25, 2007 - 07:02pm PT
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well despite the topic I will try and keep it clean...
btw, while i dont agree with you on many fronts you are not such a bad guy, but it is fun to yank your chain. and no, your not my type id have to see you as jenny to even consider...
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Jennie
Trad climber
Idaho Falls
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Oct 25, 2007 - 07:12pm PT
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Actually, Jody. These guys all realize you're not me. But Jody=Jennie has become a weapon not a suspicion, and they won't give up any weapon they can use against you.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 25, 2007 - 07:33pm PT
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"sorry officer langford i know i was tapping my foot against yours in that stall and i did signal you but i really thought you were jennie!"
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Oct 26, 2007 - 12:56pm PT
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Jody wrote: But Jody=Jennie has become a weapon...
HAHAHAHA! Could you be anymore full of yourself, Jennie? Lighten up, the weekend is here. Time for some climbing and leave this tomfoolery behind.
locker edit:
Until Monday, anyway.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Idaho Falls
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Oct 26, 2007 - 02:19pm PT
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When I was in my teens the Bonneville County Sheriffs dept conducted a sting to clean up a park and rest stop on the north side of Idaho Falls, Beeches Corner on Highway 26. Supposedly, it was a meeting and pick up site frequented by homosexuals. Oddly, people who lived in the neighborhood never saw any appearances of homosexual meetings. Just a few hetero couples necking in cars, and tourists on their way from Yellowstone and the Tetons. But the sherrifs deputies insisted it was a hot spot spot for homophiles, and the whole county felt thankful our deputies were rooting out this cancer before it offended the righteous and infected the innocent.
Later, an independent review board found no public complaints had ever been filed with respect to Beeches Corner and no arrests were made there for solicitation, public indecency, etc. But the "sting" was successful in getting the sheriff re elected.
Curiously, the Minneapolis-St Paul police have presented no documentation of public complaints in the airport bathrooms of Larry Craig fame. Also, no one has actually been convicted of soliciting gay sex there. But hefty fines for lesser infractions have been collected. How convenient to have a homosexual politician with national prominence show up and validate local police politics by tapping and waving himself into arrest by a stall constable. How considerate to allow him pleading guilty to public nuisance. And the five hundred dollar fines aren't bad prizes enroute to ridding airport bathrooms of such miscreants. An honest, uniformed cop, there for deterence, probably wouldn't have brought in ANY donut money
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Oct 26, 2007 - 03:23pm PT
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Republican apologists sure can spin!
If homosexual sex is not illegal, it's not because that's what the GOP wants. Jennie, check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlyJmhwa1c0
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John Moosie
climber
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Oct 26, 2007 - 03:53pm PT
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Hi Jennie,
Are there police stings that go overboard and are entrapment? Yes
Are there police stings that are properly run and serve a usefull purpose? Yes....Think about the stings where police set up a place to recieve stolen property and the thiefs just waltze right in.
What was this one? I don't know.
The police don't always operate off of confirmed complaints. I bet the rangers here in Wawona don't record the conversations they have with locals who make complaints about certain situations. But over time, as they hear more and more, then they decide to allocate resouces to address a problem. Official complaints are when someone calls and says they want to make a complaint. If a cop is approached at the airport by a citizen and who tells him he was solicited in a restroom the cop might not make an official report. He would probably tell the person that he would check it out and he would go check it out. He probably wouldn't find anything because he would be in uniform. Then if he hears about it again, he would probably tell his boss, and it would go from there without any official complaint being made.
Now ask yourself. Does Craig seem fishy? There are reports about him in the past. More is coming out. Surely you have developed a since of truth.
Hawkeye made a valid point.
"Claiming Entrapment before he was told of the charges (listen to the audio). Entrapment to what? How would he know if he doesn't practice anonymous sex? "
Is it perhaps you who is prejudiced by your past experiences with police stings?
..........................................
Fatty,
Reread my first post. I know that there are laws in the books that make public sex illegal.
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 26, 2007 - 04:05pm PT
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But he hadn't yet had sex in public (at least in this instance).
What crime had he committed?
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John Moosie
climber
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Oct 26, 2007 - 04:12pm PT
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It probably shouldn't be illegal. No crime was commited.
The crime is the mans hypocrisy as a senator.
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 26, 2007 - 04:15pm PT
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Just curious--why is that illegal under local law? Can't people ask for sex?
I don't believe the disorderly conduct charge was appropriate.
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John Moosie
climber
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Oct 26, 2007 - 04:15pm PT
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It is legal for a man to proposition a woman for sex.
It should be legal for a man to proposition a woman for sex.
Does it become illegal if the proposal is for sex in a public place? Isn't the line for prostitution that fact that money is to be exchanged. They still bust them before the actual sex happens.
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 26, 2007 - 04:23pm PT
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John, I don't know about the public part of it. People get solicited for sex frquently in public places. Bars come to mind.
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John Moosie
climber
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Oct 26, 2007 - 04:28pm PT
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Its not that the soliciation was done in public. Its that the act being solicited was going to be public.
If I solicite you to kill my wife, ( don't have one ) then you can arrest me for soliciting an illegal act. You don't have to wait until I commit the act.
In this case, what is illegal is public sex. So some courts say that soliciting for an illicit act is also illegal.
I think that makes sense. haha
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 26, 2007 - 04:33pm PT
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I believe he thought they were about to have sex there.
Here's the thing...
In a lot of jurisdictions, the solicitation of certain acts is a crime. Soliciting a prostitute, for example, is a crime in many areas. But is soliciting someone to have public sex a crime? If so, where is it spelled out?
If I remember right, he plead guilty to disorderly conduct. I don't know much about disorderly conduct, but what was disorderly about what he did (not going to do, but actually did)?
(My inquiries aren't directed solely at you John)
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Oct 26, 2007 - 04:35pm PT
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Let's throw out a hypothetical. Cops stake out an area known for armed muggings. They see a suspicious looking guy with a knife approaching a dog walker. They intervene, before the crime has happened. I'd assume most people would think that's OK, as it prevents a potential stabbing. If the guy was really not a mugger, but instead a butcher on the way to work, he can plead not guilty and prove it.
Larry C. had the same opportunity to plead not guilty and didn't.
While I don't have any issue with what consenting adults do in private, public places are a little different. I definitely don't think children should be exposed to that.
If we believe the cop's account, I think it's entirely appropriate for him to arrest Larry before the actual act.
And as far as believing the cop, as has been pointed out, there were rumors in Idaho about Larry long before this behaviour, and it's pretty unlikely a MN cop would have known about those rumors, and picked him as a target.
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Ouch!
climber
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Oct 26, 2007 - 04:35pm PT
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Peeping through stall door cracks may be like peeping down crawdad holes. Makes yo eyes too close together.
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John Moosie
climber
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Oct 26, 2007 - 04:38pm PT
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"But is soliciting someone to have public sex a crime? If so, where is it spelled out?"
It is probably not spelled out, so that is something they will have to fix if they are going to keep writting these tickets.
Craig will probably get off and those who believe he is straight will continue to be blind, until someone credible comes foward. I don't know how credible the guy Crowley linked is.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Idaho Falls
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Oct 26, 2007 - 04:42pm PT
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"Is it perhaps you who is prejudiced by your past experiences with police stings?"
Maybe I'm prejudiced, John, or maybe I'm just wary. I still believe most law enforcement officers are dedicated to serving and protecting the public. But the process of the Craig affair seems too facile, too superficial and lacking in concrete evidence. The U.S. justice system is based on the premise of tangibles, not "spectral evidence".
Craig doesn't have an endearing personality. He obviously arrogant and self righteous. Should he be deemed guilty of soliciting gay sex because his personality and politics rubs people the wrong way? My dad met with Craig on three occasions concerning union interests and came away disliking him. Am I entitled to dislike him, also? Perhaps, but I'm not entitled to assume his guilt in a serious offense if there is nothing more than one cop's interpretation of his foot tapping and hand gestures.
I'm offended the police didn't charge him with public solicitation. In allowing him to plead guilty to a lesser charge, they enable the arresting officer to avoid testifying in court. Don't you want to hear both the police and Craig testify in court so you can form a solid judgement or is it enough to make a judgement on hearsay about his alleged homosexual adventures?
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John Moosie
climber
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Oct 26, 2007 - 04:49pm PT
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Jennie, he wasn't in his home state. The cop had no idea who he was before he arrested him.
The cop couldn't have know Craig would sit down next to him. By Craigs own testimony, the cop was already in the stall when Craig entered the bathroom. So you can leave off targeting him for his politics.
The question is, did the cop lie about Craig using his left hand to reach down and rub the bottom of the stall. If he didn't lie, then that is an act no one would do in a public bathroom unless it was something like being a sign. Homosexuals have all sorts of signals which they use to try and keep on the down low.
Could you think of a normal reason to rub the bottom of a stall wall?
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