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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Aug 22, 2007 - 05:16pm PT
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I was on a fire on the Six Rivers NF and I was walking back to the jump spot to get something and came upon a lion. I froze in terror, it looked at me for a few seconds and then just walked off. It was an amazing looking animal-strong, graceful, etc. Only one I've ever seen, though I bet a lot of them have seen me!
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Aug 22, 2007 - 05:19pm PT
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Batrock, some states do allow for lion hunting, Montana being one of them. Maybe more Western states will follow suit, in lieu of attacks like the aforementioned ones.
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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Aug 22, 2007 - 05:49pm PT
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Last year, my daughter, Ciarra, was on a night hike with a friend at the University of Santa Cruz. The young man she was hiking with teased her about being afraid of the dark and joked about his brevity. Ciarra and I have been hiking in the woods at night since she was quite small without flashlights, so she is use to this. They were heading to the cave entrance in the river canyon.
Deep into the hike they heard footsteps mimicking their movements. At first they thought it was their imagination. Upon nearing the cave entrance, Ciarra felt cold fear race through her body. There, 10 ft from where she was standing, two cat eyes glowed in the dark. The young man began screaming his head off and hid behind my daughter. (She was in front of him to begin with.)A dear darted from the brush, the cat sprang at Ciarra, she screamed and the mountain lion veared off and ran up the hill.
The following morning she returned to the scene to re-enact the events. They had cornered the cat who was stalking the deer in a box canyon with cliffs on all sides. The cat's escape route was past Ciarra. That is a moment she will never forget.
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Indianclimber
climber
Las Vegas
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Aug 22, 2007 - 05:51pm PT
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Was hiking early morning up La Madre mountain above Red Rocks
and came across a deers freshly chewed hind leg in the middle of the trail ,I was trying to convince myself it was coyotes all the way home with my tail between my legs and looking over my shoulder
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Aug 22, 2007 - 06:12pm PT
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this thread is starting to support the carry a gun thread....
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
i said lay-daaay, step inside my hyundaaai
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Aug 22, 2007 - 06:14pm PT
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no it's not. if a mountain lion pounces on you from behind you are so not gonna grab your gun cuz you won't be able to. if you see it over on a ridge, it's probably not going to attack you.
you have a much greater chance of being struck by lightning than you do of being killed by a mtn. lion.
and even if a gun would help a friend being attacked, that lion is going to do a hell of a lot of mauling in those seconds that you're diggin out yer gun and preparing to shoot so you might as well forget the gun and hit the mtn lion w/rocks or something. unless you're hiking gun in hand, but then you need to be more concerned about an accident with the gun rather than with a mtn. lion.
i personally would be a lot more freaked out if i encountered a hiker w/a gun in a holster on their hip than i would be if a mountain lion strolled across the trail.
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Omot
Trad climber
The here and now
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Aug 22, 2007 - 06:26pm PT
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Like SS and others here, I used to think mt lions have no taste for humans, so I was safe (and priviledged to be in their territory in the wilderness). That was until I read the book mentioned eariler, "Beast in the Garden." The climax of that book is the HS cross country runner in Idaho Springs who was killed by a lion while out on a run. Not good. The basic premise used to explain that errant behavior: cats are smart, and without any negative reinforcement (read: hunting), they learn that pets and people are easy meat (although deer are their most favorite). Definitely worth a read if you live among mt lions.
In my 15 years in the Santa Cruz Mts west of Palo Alto, I've only seen two mt lions, neither in a threatening situation, although cat sightings are common in my rural neighborhood. I still love trail running, even around dusk, but I certainly don't go hiking with my 4 year old daughter at that time!
Enjoy,
Tomo
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
i said lay-daaay, step inside my hyundaaai
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Aug 22, 2007 - 06:50pm PT
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if you're running, you're mimicking the behavior of their natural prey.
in my opinion, that's just plain bad luck if you get killed by one, because still, you have a greater chance of being struck by lightning.
i would like to give that book a whirl because of its favorable reviews. however, based on the reviews, it also sounds like it states the obvious that if you live in a predator's natural habitat you must be cognizant of their natural history and what you can do to minimize your own risk. based on what i've learned in natural history courses and read from uc davis' recent studies on cougars in cali, i'm still not feeling terribly concerned. maybe i will be after i read the book, dunno, i'll let you know how it does or does not change my thinking and behavior.
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Omot
Trad climber
The here and now
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Aug 22, 2007 - 07:01pm PT
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SS,
If you have any literature or pointers to websites, I'd love to read more. The book was a bit on the sensationalistic side to be totally believable. That and the fact we have had no lion attacks on people or pets despite the frequent sitings, the deer mingling in the neighborhood to attract cougars, etc.
Thanks,
Tomo
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
i said lay-daaay, step inside my hyundaaai
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Aug 22, 2007 - 07:03pm PT
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i did already post them, see the first page of this thread
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Omot
Trad climber
The here and now
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Aug 22, 2007 - 07:04pm PT
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PS. I would guess my chances of being hit by lightning in the bay area are less then being attacked by a mt. lion, but I understand your point.
A mt lion attacked a couple of horses near my work in Palo Alto a few years ago and I believe one was shot out of a tree near downtown also a few years ago. They definitely are about.
Tomo
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crusher
climber
Santa Monica, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 22, 2007 - 07:07pm PT
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The last time I actually saw one was probably ten years ago, in the Santa Monica Mountains (Westridge fire road). I was riding my mountain bike back down from the top and it was about dusk. The lion was on the road in front of me, I probably did scare it - it leapt over the side and down the brushy slope. This was very close to the homes up Mandeville Canyon Rd. and up Old Ranch Rd., below in the canyon.
I've ridden horses and hiked in the Santa Monicas since I was a kid and that was the first time seeing one myself and that close to homes. Of course in this span of years there has been some additional development into the Santa Monicas - it's worse down in OC and probably around the Angeles Forest foothills in terms of encroaching into their territory.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Aug 22, 2007 - 07:17pm PT
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SS, i am not really concerned with being attacked by a lion. but if i were, i would have a gun and know how to use it. i learned in hell, not in the wonderful wilderness of america.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Aug 22, 2007 - 07:33pm PT
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I feel for the big horn sheep. If we could arm the big horn sheep I bet the lions would back off. The next logical question would be hand gun or rifle. My guess is that the big horn would not want the burden of having to carry a rifle.
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
i said lay-daaay, step inside my hyundaaai
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Aug 22, 2007 - 07:39pm PT
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" My guess is that the big horn would not want the burden of having to carry a rifle."
word. maybe could honk their horn and scare it away?
honestly tho, i too feel for the sheep. i saw a presentation on them about a year ago. not only are mountain lions a threat but so is development in the corridors they travel through. i need to find my notes on that. don't quote me on this cuz i may be wrong but i THINK i remember hearing about a story about a tracker being called in to kill a cat that was preying on a group of the sheep over on the eastside. i so totally can't remember the details tho. isn't there also an illness that picks them off too? so sad. i have never seen one in the wild but i hope i get to someday.
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Omot
Trad climber
The here and now
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Aug 22, 2007 - 07:49pm PT
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SS,
The UCDavis link you posted on the first page has a link to the 2005 Mt Lion Report. In that report, of 55 bighorn sheep found dead in 2001-2004, the vast majority were killed by lions. I had no idea. Would like to see them in the Sierra too.
Tomo
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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Aug 22, 2007 - 07:49pm PT
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We have a hunting season on cougers in the Black Hills. They have also been seen and shot in the city limits of Rapid City. Part of this, in my eyes, is the over population of very stupid dear that are protected and even fed within the city. Easy pray.
There are so many cougers in the hills anymore that the hills aren't large enough to support them all. Over populated lion boundries have forced some of them out into the surrounding prairies every year, and are now found regularly all over western SD.
To the OP, I doubt that it was a couger, unless it was unaware of you (doubt it) and it was dining on something in the bushes. They create noises almost as rarely as there seen, and both these times usually involve hunting or mateing.
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Risk
Mountain climber
Minkler, CA
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Aug 23, 2007 - 12:10am PT
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Nearly all of the reports of fatal attacks tell us it happens if one is jogging, running, or Mt. Biking. Standing Strong is spot on; if you act like prey, you are prey. That poor woman from Cool, CA was killed in 1994 while jogging alone on the Western States Trail above the American River; prime cougar habitat. This is near Auburn (Doolittle Country). What a cacophony of calls that rang out after this tragedy to opening up cougar to hunting again in California. Only trouble was, every tracker and game hunter they could drum-up could not find the cougar! Over population? Yes, but not cougar. I have dug through the weeds of the Sierra more than most, and rarely have I seen one, and then mostly from my car at night. With us humans spreading out and seeking wildness, solitude, nature, and all that goes with it, perhaps it is no wonder the death count has risen. Tragedy? Yes. Unexpected? No. Best to know where you are (habitat), stay alert, stick close together, and don’t act like prey!
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