Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
|
|
|
Jan 27, 2019 - 01:34am PT
|
Chouinard had some sort of licensing agreement with Camp(Interalp) in Italy for the production of his tools. My guess is that the ones we are seeing here were also made by Camp for sale in Europe.
|
|
tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
|
|
|
Jan 27, 2019 - 06:58am PT
|
Gnome. I had a Cassin Anteres that I usually paired with a Simond Chackal. they were basicly the same tool.
|
|
tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
|
|
|
Jan 27, 2019 - 06:59am PT
|
this is my 1985? Chiounard X tool
|
|
Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
|
|
|
Jan 27, 2019 - 09:45am PT
|
Here's Heidi's photos of my figerglass, made in Italy, 1979 - 80 Vintage Chouinard Zero North Wall hammer with a 55 cm. shaft.
I don't know if the elaborate webbing is original to the piece. I have not seen another Zero with that webbing.
The pick is marked Camp/Interalp on the other side.
The blue-shaft connects directly onto the head, without the metal collar the opening North Wall hammer has, & it shows a rivet on the shaft.
The spike is similar to those on the earlier wood shaft Chouinard axes.
So ------- I consider this tool to be similar to what Chouinard posted in his 1978 - 79 catalog, & in my mind, it is the tool available in the U.S. at that time. I think the similar tools with the rubber piece on the shaft were sold in Europe, perhaps slightly later, after Chouinard started making his axes in the U.S. in 1980.
|
|
Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
|
|
|
Jan 27, 2019 - 10:09am PT
|
I have seen a few other types of things that we both have in common Tradman, I once started a thread about extreme backcountry skizzing controlled falling down ice climably steep gullies although my actual participation in that sort of thing was very limited.
I feel that I need to say that I in noway climbed high standard ice, but I did climb a lot of ice back in the day.I always thought this was a North Wall Axe(x?Also '84-'85) with a custom-made weighted head.
EDIT: Zero-X axe, & '83 - for 1st yr offered. Thank you!
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
|
Jan 27, 2019 - 10:44am PT
|
Who here can describe exactly how those American-made Chouinard blue ax shafts were constructed?
IIRC, there was something novel about them. Are they fiberglass over tubing or are they solid?
And the spikes were similar, but not quite the same on the blue shafted ZERO as what showed up on the wood shafted ZERO:
More Chouinard tools using that shame shaft construction, from later years:
|
|
Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
|
|
|
Jan 27, 2019 - 10:48am PT
|
The axe was the "Zero-X". The hammer was the "Northwall-X" (I have #12!).
Circa 83-ish.
|
|
Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
|
|
|
Jan 27, 2019 - 10:55am PT
|
The shaft construction, I think, is different on the X-tools versus the classic blue shaft of the older Zero/Northwall.
I recall earlier Zeros and Northwalls were fiberglass over an aluminum tube. The X tools did have an aluminum tube. I crushed a tube on one of these X tools near the head. Still used it without effect.
Edit: fiberglass and carbon tubes. Hmmm. Maybe the ones coming out of Italy were glass over aluminum?
The USA versions seem to be glass over carbon. According to the catalogs from the late 70s.
Edit again...Fritz has posted catalog pics of the different versions. 78/79 vintage seem to be glass over carbon. By 81 they also had an aluminum tube into the mix.
Anyhow...
|
|
Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
|
|
|
Jan 27, 2019 - 12:07pm PT
|
Brian! Per your mention:
Fritz has posted catalog pics of the different versions. 78/79 vintage seem to be glass over carbon
Unfortunately, I remember some more-knowledgeable Chouinard axe historian (maybe Dane Burns) mentioning the fiberglass Zero's shown in later Chouinard 1978 - 79 catalogs were spray-painted wood Zeros. Chouinard was rushing Interalp/Camp to change to fiberglass shafts, but they did not yet have a photo for the catalog of the real fiberglass Zeros.
This photo is the one with what might be painted Zeros.
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
|
Jan 27, 2019 - 04:58pm PT
|
Now we are getting closer!
Yes, Fritz: those are painted shafts just above. The giveaway, besides the shiny gloss of the paint, is there are no pins in the shaft material. Also, the shape of the shafts are more ovoid, consistent with wood shafts, whereas the earliest blue synthetic ones have more complicated cross-sectional contours. Chamfered, if you will.
But now it's coming to me: even though in that catalog excerpt Chouinard says the 1978-1979 models implemented carbon fiber, those synthetic shafts were eventually specified as being Rexilon. Would that be a proprietary way of describing glass over carbon as you said, Brian?
I'm thinking the Rexilon shafts were devoid of aluminum tubing.
The X tools of the 1980s, per Brian's post, had shafts that were of their "revolutionary laminate of aluminum, graphite, and fiberglass."
We still don't know what Rexilon was per se. But in a forum search there are 51 threads where that term is mentioned.
And we haven't identified the composition of those CAMP shafts. Or the red shaft!
|
|
Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
|
|
|
Jan 27, 2019 - 05:05pm PT
|
I think Rexilon is a wood-ish laminate of sorts. And looks it.
|
|
Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
|
|
|
Jan 27, 2019 - 05:19pm PT
|
Tar! Thanks for your confirmation of the painted Zero shafts for the 1978 - 79 Chouinard catalog.
Rexilon!
Yes! That term was well discussed here a few years ago. It was a laminated Birch that Chouinard used for Piolet shafts for a few years. Rexilon shafts were a little heavier & somewhat stronger than the standard laminated bamboo.
I own a Chouinard Piolet with a Rexilon shaft & it is also has a very distinctive look. Chouinard &/or Interalp dropped it as a shaft material by the 1978 - 79 catalog.
I strongly doubt Rexilon was used as the inside material on the first fiberglass shafts used by Chouinard, because they would have been noticeably heavier than the laminated bamboo shaft axes, although the fiberglass Zero axe does show a catalog weight 2 oz. greater than the bamboo Zero axe.
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
|
Jan 27, 2019 - 05:23pm PT
|
Yeah, there's no Rexilon in those blue shafts. The original blue shafts are solid carbon fiber (as far as I can tell by reading the literature.)
The use of that term Rexilon is just me taking us on a wild goose chase.
Say, Fritz:
Speaking to a totally independent issue. Can you please e-mail me?
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Jan 27, 2019 - 07:41pm PT
|
Why did I give that bamboo Coonyard to that Roossian in a fit of largesse? 😫
|
|
Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
|
|
|
Jan 27, 2019 - 08:05pm PT
|
Tar! Email coming your way.
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
|
Jan 27, 2019 - 09:01pm PT
|
Why did I give that bamboo Coonyard to that Roossian in a fit of largesse? Exactly! A fit of largess ... That's the only possible explanation. Hopefully he returned the favor with some sort of titanium bauble?
|
|
Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
|
|
|
Jan 27, 2019 - 10:06pm PT
|
An old climbing buddy of mine is retiring to his 20 acre ranchette near McCall.
On my first visit there, three years back, I noticed two ice axes with their picks solidly planted in an outside wood-beam, by his front door.
Upon inquiry, he proudly explained they were both his old Chouinard bamboo-shaft piolets.
I mentioned the two of them were likely worth around $300.00 each & I was impressed with him leaving them outside.
The next time I visited, they were displayed inside.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Jan 27, 2019 - 10:11pm PT
|
Tar, I was hoping more for an introduction to a titanium babe.
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
|
Jan 28, 2019 - 08:17am PT
|
Not that it helps solve the mystery of the OP,
But, Fritz, here is Dane Burns speaking to the painted ZERO shafts, Interalp, & Rexilon:
The '78 catalog shows painted bamboo Zeros as carbon fiber and the first carbon fiber piolets with Interalp hand forged heads.
Europe got hickory, rexilon and bamboo Chouinard tools and a big dump of hickory and bamboo non Chouinard marked piolets in the end. The Chouinard-Frost logo changed to Chouinard sometime between '76 and before '78. Long before '78 if the cataog typical publish date and when the gear was available was any indication. Catalogs were always months if not years behind current production and availability.
No laminated ash or hickory that I know or seen anyone document beyond speculation. Rexilon is not a synthetic but a simple wood laminate. Grivel also used Rexilon for some of their early technical axes from the same time frame, mid '70s. http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1191047&msg=1193014#msg1193014
...
Again, Dane Burns would probably solve the OP question in 7 seconds flat!
He recently put up some of his ice ax collection for sale. Not being in the market, I didn't venture to ask why.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=382806&msg=3138549#msg3138549
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
No metal tubing involved in that shaft construct.
Let us know!