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fer calvo
Ice climber
SAN ROQUE DEL ACEBAL - LLANES
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 25, 2019 - 03:56am PT
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Hi Community, I know there are other topics about , but after read them i donīt find an answer to this queation: This Zero hammer with a RED fiber glass shaft Which year is from? Is a rebuilt tool?
I know there are some good experts on this tipe of axe around here !Hope itīs uploaded right and itīs the right forum for this.
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fer calvo
Ice climber
SAN ROQUE DEL ACEBAL - LLANES
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 25, 2019 - 04:00am PT
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Fiberglass shaft... All the old photos of similar ones where blue shafts...
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jan 25, 2019 - 09:45am PT
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fer calvo! Thanks for sharing that North Wall Hammer. I have not seen one with a red shaft.
Per my thread:
CHOUINARD, GREAT PACIFIC IRONWORKS & Other Gear Threads
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2906806&msg=2916311#msg2916311
The metal part dates to 1979 - 80, since it was made by Camp/ Interalp in Italy.
The MODEL ZERO Ice Axe & North Wall Hammer, with 55 Cm. laminated bamboo shafts, were introduced in the Chouinard Great Pacific Iron Works 1976 catalog. Wood shafts were discontinued on Chouinard axes in early 1979 in favor of synthetic blue shafts.
By the 1980 catalog, the classic Piolet head design is also gone, replaced by an entirely American-made axe with an ugly welded head, that lacked aesthetics, but worked just fine.
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fer calvo
Ice climber
SAN ROQUE DEL ACEBAL - LLANES
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 25, 2019 - 12:09pm PT
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Thanks so much Fritz ! If it's out of your knowledge must be or a test one or something similar.... the strange thing is that has use marks...
I ll keep investigating if i get to know something i'll post it!
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Jan 25, 2019 - 12:17pm PT
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The spike on the bottom I've seen on tools from the UK. These tools had a pretty solid rubber grip too.
Does it look like there was a grip that was removed?
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norm larson
climber
wilson, wyoming
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Jan 25, 2019 - 03:19pm PT
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I remember seeing one of those for sale in a shop in Chamonix in the early eighties.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jan 25, 2019 - 04:19pm PT
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Good eye, Brian!
Didn't the Lowe Big Bird have a ferrule/spike arrangement similar to that?
If it were fitted with a proper Chouinard ferrule and spike, I would have to think this would be highly collectible.
It does appear to be a retrofit. Either way, it is fairly attractive as a rarity.
Excited to learn more about it!
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Jan 25, 2019 - 04:24pm PT
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Didn't the Lowe Big Bird have a ferrule/spike arrangement similar to that?
Mine does.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jan 25, 2019 - 04:45pm PT
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Here's a pretty good match.
Two tools, Interalp-Camp Chouinard ZERO & Mountain Technology.
We are interested in the tool on the left:
But the match is not exact. The crown of the blue shaft where it meets the head seems to lack the steel cap ring and the spike lacks a hole, and the ferrule seems to be of different material.
Also, the attachment pin up near the top is a bit different, w/ no head.
Perhaps the red one, as Brian suggested, lacks the rubber shaft material which would reveal the attachment/interface of the upper lip of the ferrule more clearly?
Still very close.
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Interalp-Ice-Axe-Mtn-Technology-Hammer/283346700533?hash=item41f8c788f5:g:zuIAAOSwPWtcRN30:rk:2:pf:0
Axe has Chouinard zero blade made in Premana Italy
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Jan 25, 2019 - 05:32pm PT
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So not in the same realm beyond being Italian ice tools of a certain age.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jan 25, 2019 - 05:38pm PT
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Looks like Interalp-Camp did some of the production for the Lowe Big Birds, and the spikes are similar to the red ZERO.
What's different about those Big Bird designs is that the shaft has a taper which continues at the ferrule. Pretty slick!
The spikes themselves are similar to those of the red ZERO, with those graduated ridges.
You can't see the ridges on the spikes very well in these pictures, but they are there:
There were LOWE variations:
Integrated ferrule-spike on a later model, bent shaft LOWE:
This one from Camp, with the tapered shaft similar to what they did for LOWE, has a different grooved spike, very similar to the spikes of the Charlet Moser Tools in my shed:
Charlet Spikes:
..................................
I think we have a pretty good bead on this red ZERO as an Interalp/Camp/Premana creation.
I'd contact Dane Burns at Cold Thistle. Could be he's an authority on all things Premana?
http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Jan 26, 2019 - 08:04am PT
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I am not able to see the spike at the end of the shaft clearly, but below you see a Simond Fennec
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BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
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Jan 26, 2019 - 11:18am PT
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Another indication that it might not be the original shaft is the shiny small piece of metal around the top of the shaft between the head and the shaft. I don't remember the Chouinard fiberglass shafted axes having one of those.
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fer calvo
Ice climber
SAN ROQUE DEL ACEBAL - LLANES
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2019 - 11:44am PT
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Sorry for the delay, and thanks to everyone! Here i made a close one to the spike beside a hummingbird made by the Premana people too at CAMP ( they produced for Lowe, interalp and salewa too..)
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fer calvo
Ice climber
SAN ROQUE DEL ACEBAL - LLANES
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2019 - 11:49am PT
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A closer to the union head-shaft !
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Jan 26, 2019 - 11:51am PT
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Interesting...on the red shaft, I've never seen either a Lowe tool or a Chouinard from Camp that has an open hole where the spring pin is (below the head). Most must have a cap of sorts.
Here's a couple pics of one from the back of the closet (ha ha):
The head on the red shaft tool seems to be an exact match, down to the marks and the number of teeth, to the pic I posted above.
Note the spike on the bottom of my tool has a small hole in it. Looks like the red shaft tool doesn't? Otherwise, they're very nearly the same.
Makes me wonder if someone replaced the shaft on a blue shaft hammer with the red, fiberglass model. Can you tell (probably by weight) if the red shaft tool is glass over aluminum?
Fun stuff!
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jan 26, 2019 - 12:12pm PT
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Actually Brian,
Look again: the red shaft tool does have a hole in the spike.
It's just oriented 90° from where yours is.
I missed that on the first photograph, but on the second close-up photograph of the spike on the red shaft, you can see it.
And your blue shafted tool does have that shiny cap steel ring where the shaft meets the head, just like on the red shaft.
I think Bruce is correct, that you won't see that on a full Chouinard version.
At this point the most standout variances of the red axe from the other Interalp/Camp axes are that:
1) the attachment pin up near the top of the shaft is lacking a round head.
2) the fact that the shaft has no rubber sleeve.
Yes, this is fun.
I'm still putting my money on Dane Burns of Cold Thistle to sort us out on this oddity.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jan 26, 2019 - 12:27pm PT
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Here's what a stock Chouinard blue shafted tool looks like.
There are quite a few deviations in construction details to be seen:
The only constant is the Premana head.
We can't even be sure, as you noted Brian, whether the shaft material is the same construct of fiberglass over aluminum tubing or whatever.
I'm guessing that the Chouinard shaft, which isn't even the same shade of blue, is a completely different construct than the Interalp/Camp models.
Weren't those Chouinard shafts some kind of solid fiberglass layup, or was it done over tubing?
Pretty sure that's been discussed and pinpointed.
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ecdh
climber
the east
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Jan 26, 2019 - 02:06pm PT
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Does the spike screw out like the Simond ones (or mine at least) does/did?
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jan 26, 2019 - 04:06pm PT
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I sold a fiberglass Chouinard North Wall hammer very similar to the one Brian posts in Oct. 2018 on EBay.
I bought it from a Brit. It differs from the U.S. Chouinard catalog description in having the rubber piece marked Interalp over the shaft, being 50 cm. instead of the U.S. 55 cm., & having a different spike.
Based on buying a couple other Chouinard axe variations from Brits in the last few years, it appears they were getting product marked Chouinard with slight variations from product sold in the U.S.
Possibly? After Chouinard switched to made in USA axes & Zeros in 1980, Interalp kept selling their Italian-made Chouinard product in Europe? An early 1980's Interalp ad or catalog might shed some light on my speculation??
Here's some photos of the Zero I sold on EBay
I own another, somewhat different, fiberglass Chouinard North Wall hammer, but its at home & I'm not. I'll see if I can talk Heidi into sending me some photos of it.
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