Boy Injured In Flagstaff - was using non-climbing biners

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Roots

Mountain climber

Redmond, Oregon

Sep 11, 2018 - 04:24pm PT

Glad he only made it to the third bolt.

August West

Trad climber

Where the wind blows strange

Sep 11, 2018 - 04:34pm PT

Darwinism.

Those little fake biners are very useful wall climbing for keeping stuff handy without using up freebies.

Its climbing, not ping pong. If you get stupid you get dead.

I once had a nut tool on a mini biner. It was smaller, but otherwise looked like the real thing. Somehow it ended up on a sling that I clipped the rope to and my partner discovered.

Since people are quit capable of doing stupid things, it pays to stack the odds in your favor. Initially I switched to a plastic "key ring" biner that didn't look like anything like the real thing. Eventually I decided to not carry a nut tool.

Ksolem

Trad climber

Monrovia, California

Sep 11, 2018 - 04:41pm PT

The "fake" in the picture could be stronger than the BD biner.

I doubt it. At 6 grams lighter for the same size, it's not made out of the same material. As I recall the authentic 'biner is made from 6061-T6 aluminum? The lighter one cannot be...

Jon Beck

Trad climber

Oceanside

Topic Author's Reply - Sep 11, 2018 - 04:46pm PT

I keep my nut tool on a tied cord racked with a climbing biner. Basically another draw.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Sep 11, 2018 - 04:56pm PT

JB, pretty sure neither he or his parents will be seeing this, not that even I don’t wish him well.

Bob Harrington

climber

Bishop, California

Sep 11, 2018 - 05:06pm PT

CrowdFund a rack for that kid!

And a helmet...

Sula

Trad climber

Pennsylvania

Sep 11, 2018 - 05:28pm PT

JLP posted:

There was a kid the same age, climbing with adults as well, in Germany(?) a few years back, someone connected all his draws together with the rubber string keeper - died on impact from near the top.

It was Tito Traversa, climbing in southeastern France - 2013. He fell around 50 feet to the ground and died 3 days later. He'd climbed 5.14 at age 10.

Not all the quickdraws were wrong - but the ones that were right were placed too low to catch the fall.

Multiple court cases ensued. In May of this year his instructor was sentenced to 2 years in prison.

Here's a short Wiki article about the accident and its aftermath.

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Sep 11, 2018 - 05:34pm PT

I Never have any fake chalk bag biners. I refuse to carry anything that can't be used for real situations. even my chalk bag cord in 6mm perlon that can be used in an emergency. Bummer about the kid!

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Sep 11, 2018 - 05:43pm PT

Oh look: the trolls showed up. Aren't they cute?

I suppose I should be more empathetic since they are actually pitiful cowards who hide behind a screen living lives that could be better.

Who turned this kid loose on a climb with BS gear?

JLP

Social climber

The internet

Sep 11, 2018 - 05:52pm PT

Well, at least after 5 years I remembered the main points - rubber keepers, fell from very high on route.

Point here is even with perfect and certified equipment and elite company - there’s still more to it.

When I’m climbing with kids - I’m checking everything all the time - like everything - I find it tiring - worst nightmare.

Tom Patterson

Trad climber

Seattle

Sep 11, 2018 - 05:52pm PT

Come on...let's give this kid a break. How many on this forum are lucky to be alive today because we had no idea what we were doing when we first started? He was hurt...and my guess is that he's probably not going to make that same mistake again.

Jon Beck

Trad climber

Oceanside

Topic Author's Reply - Sep 11, 2018 - 06:17pm PT

my guess is that he's probably not going to make that same mistake

I am willing to bet he will not want to lead ever again.

I taught my son how to light the propane grill when he was 12. First time I sent him outside to the light it on his own I hear the woosh of gas flashing off. I knew what happened, I forgot to stress that you do not keep the gas on too long without lighting it. When he came in the house I could smell the singed hair. He is 15 and refuses to light a gas grill.

climber

Sep 11, 2018 - 06:19pm PT

Age 12 is too young for brow liner...

ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber

ne'er–do–well

Sep 11, 2018 - 07:14pm PT

He didn't get the memo -- "The leader must not fall".

i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber

da ow

Sep 11, 2018 - 07:55pm PT

so how does one of these fake 'biners end up on a draw? i could maybe see if someone took one off to hold shoes etc and then put a different one back on but the reports said multiple 'biners not rated for climbing.

Or, was he clipping bolt to biner to rope with no dogbone in between?

Tom

Big Wall climber

San Luis Obispo CA

Sep 11, 2018 - 08:01pm PT

This is a terrible story.

It seems the accident was partially due to enthusiasm about climbing outrunning necessary knowledge about the required equipment.

It is horrific that the climber didn't know the difference between weak "Fake-O" carabiners, and the real thing. Fake carabiners are ubiquitous because they are so useful for non-climbing purposes. Ironically, many of them are labeled, "Not For Climbing".

Colorful diamond-braided polypropylene ropes, that are commonly sold in hardware stores, look amazingly similar to the best climbing ropes available. Only an expert can discern the difference. But, it is not experts who are going to confuse them with climbing ropes.

Everyone, here, has a duty and obligation to share knowledge about climbing safety, whenever possible. Subtle differences can mean the difference between life and death.

This sport is not like surfing, where the Hotshots know to walk out along a hidden reef, and jump off behind the waves, and then laugh as some clueless doofus tries to paddle directly out through a bone-crushing shorebreak from the sand, and then gives up and goes away.

More waves for me, bro.

climber

Sep 11, 2018 - 08:09pm PT

This sport is not like surfing, where the Hotshots can walk out along a hidden reef, and jump off behind the waves, and then laugh as some doofus tries to paddle directly out through a bone-crushing shorebreak from the sand.

but it IS!

Tom

Big Wall climber

San Luis Obispo CA

Sep 11, 2018 - 08:17pm PT

I don't think the territorialism of surfing extends to climbing. It may be true that, sometimes, a Secret Topo might protect a particularly juicy route. But a selfishly callous disregard for others, especially newcomers, does not commonly exist.

I once had to leave my high-$$$$ camera at home, when going to watch my friends surf at a particular spot. I was warned that the windows of my car would be broken out. A Secret Spot is the Holy Grail for some surfers.

In climbing, area protectionism usually manifests itself in restricting unnecessary drilling of bolts, chipping holds, or otherwise degrading the experience for those who would come later.

The similitude between climbing and surfing is not 100%.

climber

Sep 11, 2018 - 08:30pm PT

Years ago, I used to have this gig ‘certifying’ SF Bay Area Council parents to be able to safely take their troops out to the crags and top rope and rappel. One time, during one of the 1st sessions outside, we all incredulously observed a man and two sons on an adjacent crag.

The guy was showing his kids ‘how to’ as if he had learned from Spencer Tracy (The Mountain). ‘No pitons, just crazy ropework with no anchors (they just had a rope, harnesses and a locker to tie into (ahem); standing on top belaying, with lots of unintended slack for the climber. We were waiting for a cratering kid (or both) as dad sat on his ass directing. I tried to ‘nicely’ intervene; even told them what our group was there for. The dad was having none of it; I had breached his pride zone in front of his kids. Funny, though, the oldest son was a senior patrol leader of a troop in the council and he was interested and sometime later enlisted in the course and got certified. The kid thanked me as well. His dad never would attend and would never talk to me.

That sh!t was so crazy to witness. It was like the dad thought it was like teaching them tennis or something; totally unaware of their peril. Darwinism in action.