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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jan 11, 2018 - 02:16pm PT
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Fat Dad I'm more interested in hashing the issue out (since it isn't allowed on mp.com) Save your sympathies. Not being able to discuss is one thing; getting banned is something entirely different. People share all kinds of opinion on MP, some of it particularly noxious, without getting banned. That site certainly allows it. Did you say something off color or offensive?
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Jan 11, 2018 - 02:16pm PT
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S J W's?, some of the finest wemon, everyone should try one or twoo. . .
https://youtu.be/_aLEu1lx8bg
they used to be my market target
Now they are looking for
HWB's .Handsome Weeping Boys?& if you skip to 12:16 Sheep Boys!
Im not that, never was
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2018 - 02:18pm PT
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I'm well aware of it's meaning, the history of Communism, the intellectual foundations stemming from Critical Theory, and their centuries-old tactics.
Not sure what the purpose of your post was, however. It appears to be an attempt to dismiss my position without actually challenging it.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Jan 11, 2018 - 02:18pm PT
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"Which sport ? The sport of posting on an online forum?"...
LOL!!!...
+1...
+2
lets not let decency get in the way of a lifestyle
hahaha!
I wonder if ballo knows the warbler
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2018 - 02:19pm PT
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Did you say something off color or offensive?
Very little that has ever been said has not been offensive at some point by someone.
The answer to your question is yes :)
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jan 11, 2018 - 02:22pm PT
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Very little that has ever been said has not been offensive at some point by someone.
The answer to your question is yes :) That being the situation, why bring your case over here?
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2018 - 02:23pm PT
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Gnome, LOL I saw a video once of a gaijin trying to get hired as one of these Japanese professional dates. No crying though.
I've been known to make women cry. I didn't know I should have been remunerated for the service.
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2018 - 02:25pm PT
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That being the situation, why bring your case over here?
As per my first reply to your post: to hash the issue out among climbers. Also, I don't care about MY case (isn't this obvious enough?)
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2018 - 02:47pm PT
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kingtut, that's disappointing. I thought this forum was strictly for the master race. I guess I shouldn't post about my plans to egg Susan Wojcicki's house.
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cleo
Social climber
wherever you go, there you are
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Jan 11, 2018 - 02:55pm PT
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Oh I see!
Everything was about how society was sexist and yet the men hauled nearly all the weight and put up all the routes
Well, I feel much better now knowing that men are doing "all" the work therefore society isn't sexist.
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2018 - 03:02pm PT
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Well, I feel much better now knowing that men are doing "all" the work therefore society isn't sexist. Not sure what one has to do with the other, or how you infer either from my story.
My humble suggestion is if you're trying to make the claim that everything is sexist you may not want to do it in a situation where you're nothing but your own priggishness. I'm not suggesting you WOULD do this, but if you did I might formulate the same opinion about you.
It's kinda like complaining that you didn't receive a bailout while you're on benefits. If the point is lost on you I could explain further.
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2018 - 03:10pm PT
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FWIW (in perhaps a vain attempt to avoid the major derailment I see coming) I don't think women nor men have it harder in life, but rather they have it different and don't really understand or appreciate the cross the other sex has to bear. Having said that, bitching about one's cross and how it's the fault of the other sex isn't going to endear me to your cause especially given the hypocritical circumstances in which you chose to mount your pulpit.
Also, I think a lot of the workplace nagging going on has to do with the fact that men and women have lived and worked separately for millions of years and do not cooperate in the same fashion. Men tend to be more competitive and are used to speaking up for themselves while women tend to be more cooperative and sensitive to fee fees.
Susan Wojcicki famously complained that her pet peeve was being interrupted. Avoiding that would result in a very, um, unconventional corporate environment. I think this modern experiment is going to end up making a lot of people, both men and women, miserable.
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2018 - 03:15pm PT
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Are you implying I'm a misogynist?
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Jan 11, 2018 - 03:16pm PT
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Ballo, thanks for sharing that video.
Sweden appears to be way ahead of its time in terms of choosing how to build a society that is better for all, and being open to try new stuff.
One thing I wonder... is it really possible to disentangle a child's independent desires and search for identity, from their early behavior to copy their care-givers to earn their love? These arguments seem to focus on giving children the freedom of choice, and safety to experiment or be whoever they want to be. But it also seems the parents are not recognizing the choices they are making for the kids, or the way they are constraining and shaping the kids' choices, while living in denial about their own role in doing that shaping.
In the end, if we had a more open and accepting society, it is a non-issue as much as whether we as parents raise our kids to like baseball or rock climbing or stamp collecting. Who is to say what is the right way to live life?
I briefly thought there was a logical inconsistency with this openness... what about letting the "boys be boys"? Where is the tolerance for the kids who are more physically rough, breaking stuff, yelling, etc... Who is to say whether these things are natural behaviors that are being repressed, versus imitated behaviors that come from our society immersed in messages of gender stereotypes that a kid will learn even before talking? Kids copy the behaviors and words that they see. So choosing explicitly a path that reduces sexual exploitation of women, that reduces the barriers to men being connected to their emotions, that gives equal career opportunities, etc... these all seem like great things.
If one thinks that "traditional boy" or "traditional girl" behavior is an innate thing (which I'm not comfortable asserting), there is a trade-off in terms of ensuring personal freedom of development/expression vs. freedom for others to not be impacted by it.
Smoking is outlawed in more places, a curtailment of personal freedom, because it impacts the people around the smokers. It is a guideline that prioritizes the benefits to all above the freedom of the individual. In a similar way, fostering a gender-neutral environment is the do-least-harm method of protecting each kid from the limiting choices of boy vs. girl. And by limiting the aggressive aspects of letting "boys be boys" it protects the other kids from being the victims of that. There is a certain irony though, that a system designed to give more freedom of expression to kids without the limitations of boy vs girl, in the end that system curtails personal freedoms when they are at odds with what the society deems acceptable. Isn't this just a flip-flop of values but still prioritizing the average society need ahead of the minority individuals that don't conform to the society? Same dynamic that causes some non-conforming individuals to suffer, just a different equilibrium point.
This was pretty rambling, but I'm just processing my thoughts out loud as I consider ideas I haven't been directly confronted with before.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Jan 11, 2018 - 03:23pm PT
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I suppose I thought the crag was a safe space where honest opinions and other bullshit were allowed.
1) The crag can be an unsafe place. Rocks can get dislodged, leaders can fall out of the sky and land on you, drop gear, any number of things - wear your helmet!
2) If you want the crag to be a place where honest opinions and other bullshit are allowed, why are you complaining about someone's bullsh#t? Does "other bullshit have to be "the right kind" of bullsh#t?
Here's the thing. Times are changing. People evolve. Sure, there has been a vocalization of balls-busted white men all sad over the fact they aren't the sure pick at a job opening that may includes candidates for the position that aren't solely other white men, mad that they can't get away with openly staring at a woman's cleavage or making comments about how she looks in a form-fitting shirt or pair of pants, and even completely flabergasted that even getting a chick drunk and then "having a little fun" is now considered rape. But those guys are as#@&%es. Do you want to be "that" type of guy?
Maybe you do! Then boldly go and let your freak flag fly and worry not that no one wants to climb with you a second day. There will still be SOME kindred souls out there, and you may have to work harder to find them, but in the end, you will be happier, because you can continue lying to yourself with the "nobody can make/take a joke" line.
Seriously - if you considered that Youtube clip "a funny joke," then I don't know what to say.
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2018 - 03:29pm PT
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In the end, if we had a more open and accepting society, it is a non-issue as much as whether we as parents raise our kids to like baseball or rock climbing or stamp collecting. Who is to say what is the right way to live life?
You could say the same thing about shitting your pants or pissing in potted plants.
I'm not trying to be glib, BTW, but you have to admit there are limits. I think the video already crosses those limits.
Think about this: there have been millions of tribes that have come and gone. I don't see any of the surviving ones show any ambivalence as to the roles of the sexes. I could be wrong, but my takeaway from that is that tribes or societies with bad dogmas don't survive, and we now have what is the result of a Darwinian selection process. In other words, even if dogmas were originally chosen for irrational reasons that doesn't mean they are without merit.
If you enter a society where nothing is what it seems that certainly adds a lot of complexity. One has to now ask what one's preferred pronoun is. Personally, I think that's ridiculous.
I have no problem with people choosing their preferred activities (so long they don't expect to be hired based on their wishes and not the demands of the job). Tomboys are nothing new and I've never met a person who is against their existence. However denying your own sex clearly something different and I don't think reaffirming sexual identities to be an inherent evil like some people do.
Near the end of that video he says "Gender confusion is a small price to pay for social progress" which I think was telling. It was if the purpose of whole social experiment was to make the world easier for him personally. I don't think that's a healthy mindset for a parent to have.
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2018 - 03:33pm PT
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) If you want the crag to be a place where honest opinions and other bullshit are allowed, why are you complaining about someone's bullsh#t? Does "other bullshit have to be "the right kind" of bullsh#t?
That's not a fair characterization. She was perfectly entitled to her opinion.
Here's the thing. Times are changing. People evolve. Sure, there has been a vocalization of balls-busted white men all sad over the fact they aren't the sure pick at a job opening that may includes candidates for the position that aren't solely other white men, mad that they can't get away with openly staring at a woman's cleavage or making comments about how she looks in a form-fitting shirt or pair of pants, and even completely flabergasted that even getting a chick drunk and then "having a little fun" is now considered rape. But those guys are as#@&%es. Do you want to be "that" type of guy?
LOL, am I now involved in someone else's fantasy all the sudden? That's quite the narrative. Does it actually describe people you know in real life, or is it from a mythological story involving dragons?
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2018 - 03:35pm PT
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Seriously - if you considered that Youtube clip "a funny joke," then I don't know what to say.
If you're referring to the Nazi pug, then yes, it's hilarious. Do you want to know why it's hilarious?
It's hilarious because Nazis are bad.
What isn't hilarious is he was formally charged with a crime for which he can spend up to a year in jail.
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Ballo
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2018 - 03:53pm PT
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lol nailed this snowflake.
Except I never said that
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