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Mimi
climber
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Dec 12, 2006 - 10:58pm PT
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Use Photobucket or ImageShack. Haven't used IS, but with PB, only copy-paste the IMG field from PB into the ST text box.
May the force be with you.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 12, 2006 - 11:13pm PT
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"So here is a thought... all the feedback I have received pretty much says these are the sh#t... why did they fade out?Seems they were way ahead of their time for the clean aid game... why have they never been "reintroduced"? "
Well, they didn't exactly fly off shelves around the country when they came out. To be honest I was quite surprised they weren't wildly popular with aid climbers back then, I didn't aid climb for decades after getting my first set. But they were fairly radical in concept and also a bit daunting to look at and to think about falling on them, especially the #2 and #3. That and they and ball nuts require a willingness to really study marginal placements to capitalize on what they do offer. Many folks just aren't willing or interested in that level of detail when free climbing; it's more the provence of [clean] aid climbers and they didn't take to them either for whatever reason. Bottom line is they wouldn't likely sell any better a second time around, especially today when passive pro is essentially pro of last resort for most young folks.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Dec 12, 2006 - 11:38pm PT
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As I mentioned, I usually rack these things through the eye on a biner. Tom Frost was very concerned about them hurting people. The small hole was indeed designed for a piece of cord so that they would hang with the eye down and be less prone to hooking inconveniently on whatever. I usually clip in using the shortest of tie offs through the eye, as shown below so as not to lose height on the aid placement.
This pic shows a girth hitched stack. This is rarely necessary, but may allow you to stuff a shallow hole enough to get to the next placement.
The celebrated Fowler Tip Torque(TM) configuration. This method is a little hard on the Crack N Ups and may require that you rebend them into their original offset shape. Once weight is applied, the two eyes are cinched together and a considerable amount of tip pressure is achieved. The thinner Crack N Ups are too wimpy to get much effect out of this technique.
Crack N Ups never caught on quite simply and tragically because clean aid never caught on. I think the number of people who actively pushed the limits with these amazing tools is very small and just about all seem to be posting on the ST.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Dec 12, 2006 - 11:46pm PT
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One of Charlie's hidden talents was abusing his partner's gear. LOL
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feelio Babar
Trad climber
Sneaking up behind you...
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 13, 2006 - 10:53am PT
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Great stuff guys...thanks for posting. They look like sweet little tools to add to the arsenal. I guess not everyone plays the clean-aid game. In regards to Largo's comments...it may take me a while to up the satchel based fortitude to stand on one as well....but I can't wait to dink with this babies.
thanks guys.
Any more pics of them in action or crack n up stories would be great!
cheers
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Dec 13, 2006 - 11:06am PT
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This Fowler would be John Fowler aka Da Magnus not Charlie.
Aid bouldering , aid bouldering and more aid bouldering o Feelio!
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Dec 13, 2006 - 11:44am PT
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True story...I did an early ascent of Tomorrow, Tomorrow (5.11r) on the Slime Wall (Gunks) with Crack N Ups as the main protection in 1978.
Kevin Bein and his wife Barabra and I worked putting the gear in with a well set crack n up protecting the crux moves.
By some twist of bad luck I managed to climb through the crux and reach a small stanced 50 feet above the ground. The rope some how brush the crack n up and I watch in horror as the piece slither out and then down the rope.
Thinking I had a better chance of jumping I told Kevin to catch me.
He told me to reach up and there would be a bucket...I somehow managed to keep it together and finish the lead.
I asked Kevin how he knew there was bucket there...he said he didn't...he just didn't want to catch me.
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feelio Babar
Trad climber
Sneaking up behind you...
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 13, 2006 - 11:46am PT
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All these posts about using them as Free climbing pro...they must seat awesome to inspire such confidence! Great post Bob!
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Dec 13, 2006 - 11:54am PT
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Great story Bob.
Steve, last time I saw John Fowler he came to solo Prodigal. There was a couple from Park City taking a full week to seige it (!!), and in a day and a half he just soloed past them. Their rope ruined the pictures though. Wish the gucking fumbies would do that on a less travelled line.
Anyway, John gave me a telephone # for SLC and a few months later I called it;...
It was the goddam county jail!!!!
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
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Dec 13, 2006 - 02:16pm PT
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On the FA of Axe of Dog in Josh, we used a Crack-N-Up as the pro for the crux move; actually pretty bomber.
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Scared Silly
Trad climber
UT
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Dec 13, 2006 - 04:16pm PT
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I have a set C'ups. Cool little pieces of gear. Tom Frost was the engineer behind many of the Chouinard developments.
Chouinard was never able to sell many so sometime in the 80s they got recylced. I was told that they had barrels of them in the warehouse in Ventura. This is one reason they are so rare to find - most got melted down into pins.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 13, 2006 - 04:20pm PT
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"This is one reason they are so rare to find - most got melted down into pins. "
Now that was a shame if true. So anyone know the manufacturing details on them? Were they forged, cast, or machined? Whatever happened to the plans, molds, jigs, etc?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Dec 13, 2006 - 04:41pm PT
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Did you say you've got a set of C-cups?
Very impressive!
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feelio Babar
Trad climber
Sneaking up behind you...
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 13, 2006 - 05:39pm PT
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I think these need to be re-isued for the Brave new future.
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Brutus of Wyde
climber
Old Climbers' Home, Oakland CA
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Dec 13, 2006 - 07:49pm PT
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I used one or two of these to protect the lead up an otherwise dangerous slab on Mt. Rubidoux back in the day... downhill and to the right of the fine hand crack near the bolt ladders. Seem to recall some sort of thumbnail mantle at the crux. I have taken a couple 'nups on most every aid climb I have done since, and used them: Climbs ranging from the original aid headwall on Steck-Salathe to Hairline on Mt. Whitney to a clean ascent of Salathe Wall on the Captain in the early '80s.
Never tried stacking them though. New concept for me.
To keep them from catching on things, I usually just carry them in my hook bag.
Brutus
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Dec 13, 2006 - 08:46pm PT
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I usually rack the Crack N Ups biner next to a wad of tieoffs or other bulky gear to reduce the entanglement potential. I usually climb with a couple dozen hooks including several ring angle claws, so the Crack N Ups seem fairly low on the Snag-O-Meter!
My most memorable fall on a Crack N Up was on Steppin In A Slide Zone on The Mean Mistreater Wall in Tucson. A #6 placed 1/2" in protected 5.10 moves about fifteen feet off the deck. The first bolt was ten feet higher and the climbing eased off the further you went. Every other party, it seemed, got worked up enough by the difficult smearing to try their luck on the meager tip below.
I had my turn one day and slid slowly by,watching with horror as the Crack N Up wobbled around in its badly abused little hole! But it popped not and I stopped just short of the ground caught by a well directed and very dynamic belay. We always used to joke that the climb was harder if you put that freaky thing in because you had to look at it while working out the crucial footwork sequence!
I never fell on one while aid climbing because I backclean a lot and don't usually leave them in. My precious, musn't leave them where they might get tweaked or come unclipped and fall, no my precious, keep them close...........
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 13, 2006 - 10:11pm PT
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Used them on the last two free FA's I did. One had a single placement and the other six.
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feelio Babar
Trad climber
Sneaking up behind you...
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 14, 2006 - 10:20am PT
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Wow...again, great fuel for the fire. You guys are really getting me stoked to play with these gems. I am glad to hear some folks say how bad-ass these tools are...I have always thought the design seemed really well thought out, and wondered why there weren't more old sets on clean aid racks? Thanks guys...keep those posts coming...great stuff.
Healyje....did you swage those loops yourself? 6 in a row for a free climb!?...that is so sweet, an a testament to your faith in them. Very anxious to join the club...mine should arrive by the end of the week......preeeeeciiious. (too funny Steve G.)
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Dec 14, 2006 - 11:51am PT
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I don't know,... I'm left with the suspicion that healyje merely takes photos so as to document the piece that failed and thereby brought about his demise.
A true pioneer! lol
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Dec 14, 2006 - 12:12pm PT
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I think the source of Healy's passion is the very rock that he eats for breakfast. Basalt and other desirably solid volcanic rock has excellent compressive strength and tends to offer lots of bottomless, closed off microslots that are perfect for Crack N Ups and offer few other viable clean options that are as solid or strong. I don't think these placements are window dressing and it simply takes a good yank with a full length runner to find out beforehand. Yank testing is a valuable technique to assess placement integrity for all small placements before moving on by. You can generate enough shock load to break the smallest cables so be sensible here.
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