Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
feelio Babar
Trad climber
Sneaking up behind you...
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 11, 2006 - 12:27pm PT
|
Anyone use these in Modern times? Are they still useful in anyway? Any special ways to rig them? Photos of your setup?
Cheers
f.Babar
|
|
Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2006 - 01:11pm PT
|
Here is a picture of the whole set #2-#6. The #1 was too paper thin and never made it on the market. Because these rack so neatly on a carabiner, I usually don't pre-sling them. A short tieoff doubled through the eye gives you a slight swivel and loses little height. John Fowler came up with the idea of placing two of them, back to back, in a camming mode by girth hitching the stems together in tension to create expansion separation at the tips. This novel clean stack was used to protect The Gashleycrumb Tinies on the Pharaoh in Tucson. I have probably spent more time on these goodies than anyone and they are truly amazing clean climbing tools when things get thin. Spend some time aid bouldering on them before you step out on the sharp end.
It is unfortunate that lots of crack n ups were destroyed by being perverted into Bird Beaks by tappers. Black Diamond strangely doesn't even list them as one of their historical firsts the last time that I checked. Try them, you will like them! But a word of warning while testing, beware the free side of the anchor shape and wear nailing gloves. No barb, but plenty of hook!
|
|
Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2006 - 01:24pm PT
|
sems like you could slice your nose off with one of those things pretty easily.
|
|
feelio Babar
Trad climber
Sneaking up behind you...
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 11, 2006 - 01:24pm PT
|
Thanks Steve! I am psyched to check 'em out...just got a full set.
|
|
Mr_T
Trad climber
Somewhere, CA
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2006 - 01:29pm PT
|
How exactly are these better than bird beaks? I can see plenty of opportunity to cut your finger off with a misplaced hammer swing. Seems a clear case for evolution.
|
|
feelio Babar
Trad climber
Sneaking up behind you...
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 11, 2006 - 01:32pm PT
|
I can definatly see how they "evolved" into beaks...just wondering if there is any merit in resurrected them for their original purpose.... clean aid pieces.
|
|
Jello
Social climber
No Ut
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2006 - 01:51pm PT
|
Crack-n-ups are not meant to be pounded! They're camming devices. The slight bend in the stem creates torque when weighted. Because the stem is bent, you need a two-sided beak to allow placement in right or left facing corners. Really a brilliant design. I used them a lot for free climbing in the 70's.
|
|
Cuckawalla
Trad climber
Grand Junction, CO
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2006 - 02:26pm PT
|
pika has something similar, not double sided. And their "powder coat" sucks, lots of flex.
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
The West
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2006 - 02:39pm PT
|
The double side-edness allows for left or righhand corner placements with the same peice, just don't poke your eye out.
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2006 - 03:03pm PT
|
Jeff,
Glad to hear I wasn't alone in using them for free climbing, I've always found them invaluable, but not many did. In the last days of Chouinard going under I asked the person who answered the phone if they still had any and she found three sets in the basement and sent them. Score. My free climbing set are rigged as below, the aid sets are threaded the same but short, with supertape and without being tied. I've taken a thirty footer on a #3 rigged essentially this way (but with supertape). Brooke Sandahl claims that he had a #1 that fell behind the bathroom vanity during construction that was never retreived despite several offers to go in after it.
|
|
Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
|
Dec 12, 2006 - 12:11pm PT
|
To echo Jello, these were not designed to be hammered, period. They really come into their own when used in tapering slots with no bottom opening which would allow a tiny cabled nut such as an RP or steel nut. Because Crack N Ups nest so well, you are able to place them as a stack with a girth hitch through the eye. The larger sizes are stronger than an equivalent sized wired nut which is why people used them as free climbing pro for a while. I would be curious as to the longest fall caught by a Crack N Up. Take it away Healy. Do I hear 35' going once, twice! How badly did the piece bend once it came out?
The offset stem design was intended to create clearance for the eye sling to allow it to be placed cleanly. All of the subsequent Beak variations are flat and it doesn't take much time fiddling with them to appreciate how well Tom Frost thought this design through for its intended use. I just got some 1/8" sheet stainless and have been dying to push the limits of this design even further!
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
|
|
|
Dec 12, 2006 - 12:27pm PT
|
I never had the sac to use those things. If I could get a crack n up in, I could also set the tip of a blade, bug, or LA, that's what I went with, pounding the crap outta the thing in the process. Bad form but the crack n ups spooked me.
JL
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Dec 12, 2006 - 12:41pm PT
|
I never knew it was Tom who designed them - simply brilliant - many, many thanks for such beautiful and utilitarian, if esoteric, design. These babies were never popular and just looking at them made a lot of folks uncomfortable back when they debuted. No doubt they can do some damage popping on aid, but they are an irreplaceable as a free climbing piece. There is simply nothing else like them. Way better than a micro nut or cam of any kind. They are also indispensible as opposition pieces. The combination of Crack'N Ups and the three smallest Lowe-Byrne ball nuts make freeing a lot of pitches a fairly reasonable proposition when they'd otherwise be runout horrorfests. In fact, I find it fascinating that many folks will turn up their noses at Crack 'N Ups and Ball nuts perceiving them as inadequate and yet go out and buy a micro-cam. Both are imminently superior to micro-cams in every way except being familiar. I definitely don't launch on an FA or otherwise voyage into the unknown without them in tow.
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Dec 12, 2006 - 12:54pm PT
|
Feelio, when you get them you'll see when they aren't slung they nest / stack quite nicely. I pre-sling mine and trade off that capability gambling that a stack could be replaced by a ball nut (not always the case).
And while I never tested it for strength, I've always operated under the assumption that hitching them with a bend around the shaft is stronger, safer, and adds to the camming action; I was never comfortable with just a sling through the hole.
|
|
feelio Babar
Trad climber
Sneaking up behind you...
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 12, 2006 - 01:15pm PT
|
So Healyje...
What's with the Swagged Cable up top? uses? Wouldn't that eliminate the camming action?
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
Dec 12, 2006 - 01:22pm PT
|
Think about cleaning FB.
I once soloed the crack just right of the Rincon route's first pitch almost entirely on crack-n-ups before it went free. I assume that is what was used for pro when it did.
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Dec 12, 2006 - 01:35pm PT
|
The cable does help with the cleaning, but it is principally for racking them. It doesn't get in the way of the camming at all. The deal is these babies are a nightmare on your rack if not rigged this way or with cords. I always assumed, now that I know it was Tom, that he must have had this in mind and that's why the hole was there; I could certainly be mistaken on that assumption, but that's what I do.
|
|
Mimi
climber
|
|
|
Dec 12, 2006 - 04:07pm PT
|
Ironic, but unfortunately, not surprising.
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
Dec 12, 2006 - 06:53pm PT
|
I wrote a little piece on crack-n-ups over at rc.com a couple years ago.
(Somebody else can provide a link.)
I seem to recall saying something like trust the Bird to take a clean climbing tool and make it dirty.
Called 'em "little boat anchors" and mentioned that I prefer to carry them in a pocket, like hooks.
In soft desert sandstone they work if the placement is good enough.
The trouble I'm seeing is from people who don't bother finding the perfect fit (often because they are used to harder more forgiving rock) and then take a fall stripping out the placement rendering it a more difficult proposition yet.
|
|
RRK
Trad climber
Talladega, Al
|
|
|
Dec 12, 2006 - 10:55pm PT
|
Although I rarely remember anything about a climb in any significant detail, I do remember using one for freeclimbing pro way-way-back. I tensioned the placement with an inverted hook pulled together with a cord and B-lock cut out of a backpack. (I still have that whole thing in a box somewhere and would post a pic if I knew how. Do you have to use Photobucket, or can you post a link from any webpage?) The rig wouldn't hold a popcorn fart but gave me the courage to climb past an otherwise blank spot (didn't sh!t for several days after though). Cool little gadget. Thank God I didn't have to test it - but that's probably true of most of my gear placements from that era
RRK
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!