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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jul 27, 2015 - 12:50pm PT
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I agree with the general sentiment of all who have posted thusfar. This kind of tactic goes way beyond some of the slimiest manipulations I've observed at this forum to get someone booted.
""Progressives" are always the first to call for censorship."
As usual, TGT conflates this with 'progressives'. Your lameness is showing, TGT...zip it back up.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jul 27, 2015 - 12:54pm PT
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Ron, knock it off. You've got most of us (including, for the most part, crankster) in your camp on this one, in spite of your incredible glass house irony of your past history with those here you don't like.
Think about this like the way McCain reacted to Trump's comments. Take the high road, keep your mouth shut, and let the other as#@&%e continue to make themself look like an as#@&%e.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Jul 27, 2015 - 12:55pm PT
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Mtnyoung said;
If you will allow it, I would be willing to compose a letter/email for me to send to your advertisers; me as an individual consumer and Supertopo forum user.
My letter would be polite and professional. The gist of the letter would be that I too am a gear user/purchaser and I too am a Supertopo forum member. I would emphasize to your advertisers that, in my opinion, this "Mark" guy is an anonymous coward who is inventing tales designed to hurt Supertopo. I would make it clear that Supertopo is a great site for vigorous discussion by climbers of topics of interest to them.
Such a letter would ask them to completely disregard this anonymous and untrue set of claims.
I would use my real name and address to each advertiser and invite them to contact me to verify that I am real.
I will not do this, however, unless you are OK with it; it is your site (thank you by the way) and they are your advertisers.
Feel free to contact me privately (or here) if you are OK with me taking this step.
I would be willing to do this as well. I am a noob at this leading stuff and have learned much on and made new friends because of this site. This "guy" is just wrong and I have no problem giving back to this forum. If this is the way, so be it.
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jstan
climber
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Jul 27, 2015 - 01:05pm PT
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Maybe someone can help us here. This morning I was able to pull up a thread titled something like "as low as we can sink....."
It is gone now and it apparently bore on the events described here. That thread needs to be recovered as it bears directly on this thread.
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couchmaster
climber
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Jul 27, 2015 - 01:06pm PT
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Rdog noted: "One who has never divulged his real name, nor has EVER posted a single pic of himself, climbing or otherwise. So " Crankster",, would your ip addy match Winans?"
Haha! I could totally see that being the case, Cranksters anger towards both Ron and Werner is way over the top. Furthermore, the wording is similar between Winans and Crankster.
Any way to get both IP addresses? In either case, if I can be of any assistance Chris, please don't hesitate to ask.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 27, 2015 - 01:07pm PT
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I have to think your advertisers regularly get complaints from such cranks.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jul 27, 2015 - 01:08pm PT
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I would like you to know that you are advertising on a website whose members promote violence against other Americans. The level of hatred expressed on this site against Latinos and Muslims specifically is absolutely unacceptable in the United States of America. Specifically, I am talking about www.supertopo.com and its forum.
To my knowledge, there have been no posts on Supertopo -- by Ron Anderson or anyone else -- promoting violence against Americans.
Ron, and others, occasionally make posts expressing anti-Muslim feelings, but what the "Winans" letter writer does not mention in his letters to advertisers is that whenever such a post is made, the vast majority of responses are to castigate the poster for expressing ideas most of us find distasteful.
In fact, the tone of the overwhelming majority of posts made by Supertopo members is exactly the opposite of what "Mark Winans" says it is.
Please feel free to pass this comment on to any advertisers who are considering pulling their ads from Supertopo.
David Harris
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Jul 27, 2015 - 01:08pm PT
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What apogee said:
Ron, knock it off. You've got most of us (including, for the most part, crankster) in your camp on this one, in spite of your incredible glass house irony of your past history with those here you don't like.
Think about this like the way McCain reacted to Trump's comments. Take the high road, keep your mouth shut, and let the other as#@&%e continue to make themself look like an as#@&%e.
I agree word for word.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jul 27, 2015 - 01:09pm PT
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Hey Chris,
You want mainstream advertising and visibility you need a better approach to moderating. Might even need an overhaul. You are doing great with OGL and though I'm sure traffic here is decent these might need to become separate entities. I love Supertopo but an early ~2000's messageboard with all the workarounds and issues with abuse as this may be a liability and not be something you want connected to your current projects.
Think of ST as your first climbing partner who is a stoner living in his parents basement. Some good memories but he's just going to ruin things if you bring him along to business meetings.
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Da-Veed
Big Wall climber
Bigfork
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Jul 27, 2015 - 01:15pm PT
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If Ron was banned why is he still posting here under another name?
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Jul 27, 2015 - 01:24pm PT
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Ron, I have taken note of who's said what.
This isn't your fight. Some jerk is using you as an excuse. Just leave it alone.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Jul 27, 2015 - 01:26pm PT
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In a country whose young Latinos now routinely call each other "Niggah" on their Facebook posts, and whose police SEEM to shoot first and question later, this feller Winan is ultra-lightweight.
The more politically correct parts of the country become (or believe they are becoming), it seems there is an undertow of others who damn and curse foreigners for our collective woes.
Few have washed up here on the shores of ST Island, Skipper.
Stay the course.
This is just a squall, one of many you'll face, though you are right to bring it to the crew.
--the Aaargh-umentative Scupper Rat
Shame on you, Mark.
edit: mtnyoung is right, Rdog. Back the fook doon, there's a good boy.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 27, 2015 - 01:26pm PT
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Hard to imagine that any advertisers would take this seriously. It isn't
like they've branded the place like Gym Climbers.com Field of Dreams. A
cursory review of any of the cited threads would probably have them in
stitches or scratching their heads at the worst. I'm no lawyer but this
certainly seems to be some form of blackmail.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Jul 27, 2015 - 01:30pm PT
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I find it hard to believe this guy has had any success causing advertisers to leave. One guy making baseless accusations? One guy on a vendetta against one poster who is not representative of the overall tone of the site?
Well whoever you are out there I wish you would stop. You are not solving any problem with your tactic, you are being destructive with no gain for anyone.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jul 27, 2015 - 01:46pm PT
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Since when does political incorrectness become hate speech? Ron's suggestion that we do not let any more Muslims into the country until we sort out who's already here might not be "politically correct," but I don't see the racism or hate in it. Given our first amendment rights Ron is way inside the envelope.
We better be careful, terms like politically correct sound pretty Orwellian to me. And screaming "hate speech" when it's not there is like crying wolf. When it really happens no one will listen, they've heard it to much already.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Jul 27, 2015 - 01:50pm PT
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If you don't believe the name, why would you believe the location? Why don't we assume the standard when this sort of thing happens?? Ron, have you turned down some amorous advances lately? :)
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Jul 27, 2015 - 02:00pm PT
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Chris and all of the rest of you are giving this guy the attention he seeks. This thread shouldn't be here.
If an advertiser sees value here, they'd have to be born yesterday to take this guy seriously - fuk'em, let them go.
Otherwise, call the advertiser and stand up for yourself. Shouldn't be hard, your opponent is an anonymous loser.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Jul 27, 2015 - 02:00pm PT
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The term politically correct is a polite euphemism for stick up the arse.
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canyoncat
Social climber
SoCal
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Jul 27, 2015 - 02:08pm PT
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While I don't open any of the politard threads anymore, I am aware that generally they seemed to be full of the same people posting over and over, and arguing the same old stuff ad nauseum. As usual it's the "those threads" that are creating the dissent, and according to Chris, the potential negative impact to sponsors.
Rather than whine about a specific poster who is complaining to suppliers, why not just get rid of "those threads". No politics, no religion. Many forums have seen the wisdom of that, as those are the topics that seem to generate the majority of hate?
As to the complainer, he's exercising his right to contact sponsors. His opinion is a important as a sponsor is willing to make it. I'm not at all surprised that they are questioning their association with a forum that allows hate speech. What would you expect a corporation to do? Can't host a free for all and think that corporate America is going to co-sign.
The problem is not with the complainer, the problem is with the lack of moderation. If you don't want to have moderation, that's fine too, but then don't act all indignant that someone complained? I believe several people have suggested a separate forum for "no holds barred" discussions...you might ask how your sponsors would feel about that and see if it takes care of their concerns?
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Jul 27, 2015 - 02:10pm PT
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Supertopo is like a fine women if ur nice you get in!
this pic is for Mark Winans
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