Will Yosemite Pioneers Be Forgotten?

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List

This thread has been locked

Messages 21 - 40 of total 159 in this topic

<< First | < Previous | Show All | Next > | Last >>

Ihateplastic

Trad climber

It ain't El Cap, Oregon

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2015 - 10:14am PT

On a similar note... I try to tell students that performers like Kanye West, Iggo Azalea, and Justin Bieber will be long forgotten in 15 years because much of their music is derivative but the real pioneers, Beethoven, Mozart, The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, and even Taylor Swift will still be played 50 years from now.

A...N...D...

Disagree.

Ihateplastic

Trad climber

It ain't El Cap, Oregon

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2015 - 10:24am PT

Ghost is correct that I leaned heavily on my time period and left off many a pioneer (I was working on three hours sleep and a sudden urge).

A few more:

Ray Jardine
John Middendorf
Yabo
John Salathé
William Kat
David Brower
Anton Nelson
Mark Powell

Of course there are hundreds but there are certain names that should be drilled into new climbers much the same that MLK, George Washington, and Abraham Lincoln are embedded into youths at school. Where would Yosemite climbing be without Robbins, Bridwell, Bachar, Kauk, Hill?

BLUEBLOCR

Social climber

joshua tree

Apr 27, 2015 - 10:42am PT

Here's a couple you forgot hater,
Jules Eichorn
Bestor Robinson

Maybe the first of the piton pounders?

elcap-pics

Big Wall climber

Crestline CA

Apr 27, 2015 - 10:55am PT

Back in 1988 I had a similar experience with Bridwell. I was trying to sleep, the night before starting on the Muir, but heard a rucas outside and got out of my tent to see what was up. Bridwell was a little loaded and was saying that he went by another site and saw some climbers who he engaged in conversation... it went something like this "hello guys. I am Jim Bridwell and have done some things here... I was wondering what you guys are working on?" The reply was short and powerful...... "Jim who?" Bridwell was furious that they had never heard of him and said.. "Fcuking Americans know nothing about the history of climbing in their own country!"

People who are interested in the history of climbing will learn all about it, and can, as we now have an extensive record of its development. Those with no interest, will not. It is that way with just about everything. In the end... the real end... all that mankind has ever done will some day be lost when the earth is eaten by the sun. Nothing lasts forever.

JEleazarian

Trad climber

Fresno CA

Apr 27, 2015 - 10:57am PT

Two events of the past few days reminded me of a basic truth about history: It's not those who were there, but those who come after that decide what is historically signficant.

On Friday, I had to deal with all the noisy remembrance of the Armenian genocide started by the Young Turk government on April 24, 1915. My mother, still alive and lucid at 103, was thrown into prison and her father, a professor at Euphrates College, was killed, facts she vividly remembers. Nonetheless, the enormous scale of the killings perpetrated by Hitler, Stalin and Mao make many argue that the horror my forebears faced doesn't "qualify" as genocide.

The next day, I watched "Valley Uprising" again when Discovery aired it, to see if my impression from the first time I watched it changed. It did not. How could anyone argue that the NW Face of Half Dome was "the world's first 'big wall' route," given the routes that had been done in Europe in the 1920's and 30's, or, for that matter, the Lost Arrow Chimney and the Steck-Salathe? Nonetheless, that's what the film said.

I'm sure if Pratt were alive, he'd be surprised to find that he was a mere "acolyte" of Robbins. Sacherer would doubtless be surprised to learn that that my generation was the first to consider free climbing big walls. I gusee the DNB, Lost Arrow Chimney, and North Buttress of Middle Cathedral don't count.

When I thought about it some more, however, I realized that people and climbs I considered important decades earlier are not necessarily important today. Each innovation in the steam locomotive was a big technological breakthrough in the 19th and early 20th Centuries, but doesn't matter much in the 21st.

Whether we like it or not, there's no guaranty that climbers and history we think important now will seem so important 50 years from now. Humanity's curse, but also its blessing, is that we change how we do things. Those changes necessarily cause us to view past events differently over time.

John

pyro

Big Wall climber

Calabasas

Apr 27, 2015 - 11:06am PT

love this guy named Bob kamps!

At least Roxy knows the presidents!

One of these men had balls... the other just threw a ball.

sounds like a baby boomer kinda comment!

ron gomez

Trad climber

fallbrook,ca

Apr 27, 2015 - 11:07am PT

I gotta say that Jim was very well mannered and took it all in stride. He is "different" now than he was in the 60's-80's and speaks his mind. Jim is an incredibly giving person in the same way. Same trip to the Valley as above, we were in the cafeteria eating breakfast with a close group of friends. Word gets around that Bridwell is "over there". People start to gather, a camera man sets up a camera on a tripod and starts to film us eating breakfast and starts an interview with Jim. I ask Jim if he's cool with everything...he responds, good to go....if I can sit here and make these guys day, then that's what I'll do.
He also hands out food to the needy at his local church, never seen him turn away someone who wants to talk or get an autograph. He has done work for magazines and films, never gotten paid, but doesn't ask either. He is a one of a kind, true gentleman.
Just be ready to discuss if you ask a question he is ready to discuss!
Peace

Mark Force

Trad climber

Cave Creek, AZ

Apr 27, 2015 - 11:11am PT

Seems many (most?) climbers know little climbing history. More worrisome is that few people know history, science, math, or writing. It seems that it would behoove the species to let natural selection run unimpaired by society's interventions....

PS That pic of Nic Taylor represents some serious badassery!

PPS For Jim Bridwell to not get every due respect from YOSAR just ain't right!! Thanks, Ron, for posting about The Bird. For those who enjoyed the unique atmosphere of The Valley during the 70s, The Mayor of Camp 4 orchestrated the magic and we have him to thank.

Ihateplastic

Trad climber

It ain't El Cap, Oregon

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2015 - 11:17am PT

Ron... I remember always being intimidated by Jim... my God! He was larger than life for this pubescent teen wannabe. One day my cruiser bike disappeared from C4. I wandered around looking for it and caught wind a gang of long hairs had it over by the pool. I strutted over there ready to set things straight only to see Jim astride the vehicle and surrounded by the "names": Werner, Kauk, Bard, Worrall, Long... I knew Ron well so I mustered my courage and approached.

"Hi. Uhmm... that's my bike. Can I have it?"

Jim: "Yours? Really? I thought it was a community cruiser."

"I need it to get down to el Cap"

Jim: "El Cap, huh? That's quite an objective this late in the day."

"No, we're not gonna climb it today. Just Moby Dick."

Jim: "Well then, I better get you on your way."

He hoped off and gently passed the bike over. The crew all got a good laugh out of it and I felt I had conquered a huge fear. I peddled back to C4 to tell my young crew about the dignitaries I had met.

Good times...

rbord

Boulder climber

atlanta

Apr 27, 2015 - 11:34am PT

It's sad if we're sad about it. Me, not so much. My kids don't really care who I used to be or who my heroes were or who the real pioneers were. They're the pioneers now.

Trad climber

Calgary

Apr 27, 2015 - 11:39am PT

I started climbing in 1977 and wanted to know everything about the history. Now a lot of youngsters don't care much about it.
What is wrong?
Why don't they care?
The ones who came before set the stage so we could have our fun.

How can someone not know about Bridwell?

selfish man

Gym climber

Austin, TX

Apr 27, 2015 - 11:44am PT

people start caring about history when they get older. Give it another 20 years and those plastic climbers will be complaining no one has ever heard of Sharma

ECF

Big Wall climber

Apr 27, 2015 - 11:58am PT

Pioneers forgotten?
Yeah, even by you history buffs.

George Anderson

mouse from merced

Trad climber

The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.

Apr 27, 2015 - 12:01pm PT

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2534096&msg=2534096#msg2534096

Ghost doesn't keep up with much, Apogee, in terms of music.

I'm so glad I got a chance to speak with Raffi Bedayn and sit on his granite bench in the lee of Columbia boulder

with a sense of pleasant ease,
watching the new stars climb with ease.

And waiting for their children to follow.

It's funny, too, because this youngster was there that afternoon, too!

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Apr 27, 2015 - 12:25pm PT

Yeah Mike, a sweeping generalization, but all too often true.

I just can't understand how young (literate) climbers are just not curious as to how our activity evolved.

Before I ever put up a route I knew One Man's Mountains by Patey as well as Doug Scott's book by heart, and had read many dozens of other climbing books.

johntp

Trad climber

socal

Apr 27, 2015 - 12:27pm PT

Doug who?

edit: oh, wait. was that the guy that broke his legs in the himalaya and crawled down on his knees?

Bruce Morris

Social climber

Belmont, California

Apr 27, 2015 - 12:43pm PT

Everyone is eventually forgotten . . . except for a few names in history books that most people don't read anyway.

BLUEBLOCR

Social climber

joshua tree

Apr 27, 2015 - 12:46pm PT

Roots

Mountain climber

Tustin, CA

Apr 27, 2015 - 01:14pm PT

Yes Big M....I think that most of what we care about today will be irrelevant 100 years from now. What might be of interests is Hannold, Caldwell etc. Because those guys are changing climbing..radically changing climbing.

The new generation may want to know where their strategies, techniques, and gear came from. Soloing and Free Base is the future, and will open up new ideas like your own personal safety drone that catches you before a grounder. Climbing around with ropes, etc. will be too cumbersome (for the future IMO).

No one will give a crap about leading a 5.9. Well some will...think about the true pioneers and what occurred in the 20th century. Museums will have some of it is my guess, but they will have had made room for the 21st century pioneers too which will be more interesting to visitors as it is more relevant.