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Greg Barnes
climber
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My sawed off Cassin hammer:
LOA 10.125"
L 9.0"
W 19.9 oz
Originally I made one for a lightweight backpacking drill kit, but I liked it so much I made a 2nd. Got the Cassin hammers at a Sierra trading post sale for 14.95 each.
Only problem is funking pins - doesn't work well at all. I grab a BD hammer for that.
My original ball and peen hammer was a monster, I should see if it's still lying around somewhere...
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Banquo
climber
Amerricka
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 2, 2014 - 08:27am PT
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So, the numbers in the last four columns are different ways to measure how out of balance the hammer is. You can see that the Omega Pacific has the poorest balance by all measures except for the eccentricity of the Grivel. (I believe the balance of the Grivel could be greatly improved by removing the wire nut tool found in the handle. I have looked at this nut tool and can't imagine that it is very useful.) The odd looking little Salewa has the best balance - probably because the handle is very light.
The GI knockoff has better balance than the Chouinard original. These are the two hammers I have used the most and I have no hesitation saying that I prefer the GI hammer. The steel is a bit harder and doesn't mushroom as quickly, the handle seems to be better wood, the handle is epoxied into the head, the head is heavier and I like how it swings. The GI hammers come up on Ebay now and then - there is one listed now. Search for: climbing hammer
Being out of balance shouldn't affect the drilling efficiency of the hammer but I think it will increase fatigue and perhaps elbow/wrist problems.
In another thread, Couchmaster mentioned the Kong Eagle hammer which is said to have been designed by Bridwell. The Kong has a raised hump at the funk hole. This would raise the center of gravity and reduce the eccentricity. The Kong might be a well-balanced hammer but I don't have one to evaluate. If anybody does, it would be nice if you would reproduce my measurements.
Balance probably doesn't matter much for a piton (as opposed to a drilling) hammer since you don't spend as much time pounding. For a piton hammer you would want as much mass as you are willing to carry around.
For bolts, I think a lighter, well balanced hammer will be better and that is what I hope to find out as I test these hammers. I find it interesting that the best balanced and the almost lightest hammer is the only one that the manufacturer specifically claims is for bolting. From the Salewa website: "The ideal, well-balanced hammer for securing bolts."
Next is to devise a test to see how fast heavy and light hammers drill. A heavy hammer will result in slower hits and more fatigue so I am not certain it will be faster. It's hard to figure out how to do this test fairly.
I think it's funny I can write "raised hump at the funk hole" in a serious sentence.
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Banquo
climber
Amerricka
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 2, 2014 - 08:32am PT
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Greg -
Post a picture of your hammer and get the reaction force "R" so I can see how well it is balanced. Do you like this hammer for drilling or placing pitons?
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Greg Barnes
climber
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The camera on the phone distorts the picture, the very end of the hammer is perfectly lined up with the end of the tape measure and the LOA is 10.125".
R=15.8
E=1.854
E/L= 0.206
W*E= 36.9
W*(E/L)= 4.1
I didn't dig out the other sawed-off (my first one, more beat-up). I cut them off so they'd fit in an A5 bolt bag along with the drill, bits, bolts, wrenches, etc. Whole setup nice and light and small.
Hand drilling, not very good for pitons.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Ahh...my Thor hammer. Still some life left in 'er. Fast lighter hits over heavy few for me.
Have picked up a Petzl Bongo. Seems aw'ight.
Fun stuff...
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two-shoes
Trad climber
Auberry, CA
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Anybody know this trick? After getting the holes first 3/4" established, not only hold the holder loosely, but retrace it in the hole about 1/4" and then strike it. It not only helps clear the hole of dust, but helps keep the bit from sticking, there is more of a rebound effect. You can often strike it quite hard, depending on the bit, and not have it stick. If you haven't tried this it's worth a try. I think a lot of this tap tap tap, or slam slam slam is dependent on how hard the rock is that you are drilling. I think I remember soft, coarse grained rock sticking much more adversely, and hard, fine grained rock not. I haven't drilled anything by hand in a long time so it's a little fuzzy, but I used to be a pretty fast hand driller.
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Banquo
climber
Amerricka
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 2, 2014 - 05:33pm PT
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The first hammer comparison drilling speed test results.
I chose the GI Surplus Yosemite Hammer and the Grivel Thor because they varied in weight, are about the same length and have not the worst nor the best balance.
I used the same Petzl Rocpec drill holder with both hammers and for each each hammer I had an identical, brand new Makita drill. I also had a 1.35 inch deep starter hole for each drill. I drilled with the Grivel first then with the heavier GI. I set a timer for 2.5 minutes and drilled as furiously as possible. I waited about an hour after the Grivel test before I pounded with the GI to let my arm rest. I didn't blow the dust out of the hole during the tests, I simply kept drilling. I don't have an overhead drilling setup so I drilled into a horizontal surface about level with the bottom of my ribs. The top of the drill holder was something like chest height.
For both hammers I found I could pound for about 20 seconds before I needed to shake my arm out for a couple seconds. I didn't measure it but my natural blow rate seemed about the same for the two hammers although I think I took shorter strokes with the GI. I turned the drill continuously as best I could while drilling.
In 2.5 minutes the Grivel went 0.354 inches (7 minutes per inch) while the GI hammer went 0.611 inches (4 minutes per inch). A 2.5 inch hole would take 17.5 minutes with the Grivel and 10 minutes with the GI at these rates.
There are some flaws in this method such as uncontrolled variables. Since I worked with the Grivel first, I may have had less endurance with the GI. My drilling rate may not have been sustainable for a full 2.5 inches.
As I said earlier, I really like the GI hammer. It seems balanced and feels good to swing. Nice solid whack.
The Grivel hammer dings like a bell and I can feel vibration in the aluminum handle. I don't think the vibration will hurt me (I plan to discuss vibration and injury later) but it is annoying. When hammering with the Grivel, the nut tool wire works its way out of the handle. My inclination is to throw the nut tool away which would improve the balance of the hammer.
I had really hoped the lighter hammer would be faster since I would rather carry it when climbing.
I may try another test and go a full 2.5 inches and see how long it takes. I'll have to think about which hammers to use. Maybe I'll compare the lightest and most balanced Salewa with the heaviest and least balanced Omega Pacific.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Cool look at the different rates Banquo.
The fastest I have ever drilled a 1/4 x 1.25" buttonhead was with a rawl holder, chisel tip bit, and a BD Yo hammer.
right around 3 min with a fresh bit.
Deucey is a BEAST.
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Banquo
climber
Amerricka
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 2, 2014 - 06:01pm PT
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Mucci-
I've always wondered about reported drill rates. When I hear about the legendary 45 second bolt hole I wonder who had a stop watch and who said ready, set, go. Most climbers keep their watch in their pocket and the belayer should be taking pictures or having a snack.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Banquo-
I was in my ladders with a wrist watch, Probably the easiest way to drill on the planet, except for those pesky Boschs,,
I heard jeff altenberg was drilling 2 min holes on Skull Queens ladder.
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Banquo
climber
Amerricka
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 2, 2014 - 06:27pm PT
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Mucci-
I guess it's that I never wear a watch since it gets banged up so easily. I would be very proud if you were using one of my drill holders when you did this.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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I did use your A taper holder and a shorty 1/4" carbide tip bit for rivets.
I commented on the speed after I drilled one placement, and my partners were impressed.
My partner Kev used your A taper on a Solo FA, both for 3/8ths and 1/4". Beside the fact he broke every bit he had (bullit stone) , He liked the drill.
It will be on our rack for the next route for sure.
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Banquo
climber
Amerricka
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 2, 2014 - 07:06pm PT
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Mucci-
What hammer did you use?
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Both of us used the BD Yo hammer.
Of all of the hammers I have used in the field, that is the one that agrees with me in terms of drilling on lead.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO
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All this discussion about loosely holding the drill holder, pulling the bit 1/4"out of the hole, etc. so you simulate the action of a hammer drill is why I like the Petzl RockPec. With the RockPec, the bit floats in the holder and you get a lot of back and forth action in the hole when you are drilling.
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Banquo
climber
Amerricka
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 2, 2014 - 08:20pm PT
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Mucci-
I think the BD hammer is very good. I think the GI knockoff I used in the test is just slightly better. Perhaps you can find one or borrow mine someday to try out.
Earlier today I said one was available on Ebay but it seems to have disappeared. I guess the seller didn't get any bids and withdrew it. They do come up every couple months or so. I've had three of them over the years.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Yeah, I almost bid on that one.
Why do you like it better?
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO
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Banquo,
that GI hammer didn't disappear.
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ruppell
climber
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So
This isn't a power drill friendly convo?
I bet my "insert name here" hardware store bought drill out drills any and all hand drills mentioned here.
Why be That Guy?
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Banquo
climber
Amerricka
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 3, 2014 - 08:07am PT
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Why do you like it better?
It weighs the same as the BD but seems to be better balanced. The steel seems to be tougher. The handle is wedged and epoxied in place. The wood seems is nicely oiled. The only down side is the biner hole is harder to get a biner into.
that GI hammer didn't disappear.
I see it has now showed up as a completed auction. Let us know what you think of it. I have two of them, one in use and one in reserve.
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