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John M
climber
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Jun 29, 2013 - 04:14pm PT
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Ron, I think what burning man meant was that even though we are the alpha animal, that the bears have needs too. So if we want bears, then we have to learn how to coexist. Many people seem to move to the mountains and then expect everything else to learn to get along with them without making any effort themselves. When just learning some basic considerations, such as using bear proof garbage containers, will make things much better for both humans and bears.
Speaking of bears breaking into vehicles. Some bears can identify vehicle shapes, so once they find food in one Toyota Camry, then they find all the other Camrys in the parking lot and break into them even if they don't smell food. They will even ignore a vehicle parked next to a Camry that someone left food in.
I don't have a problem with the need to occasionally kill a habituated bear. I have more of a problem with humans who do nothing to help keep bears from becoming problems. Or who even go so far as to feed bears. A habituated bear is most likely a dead bear unless you have lots of people like Steve Searles who will spend the time to retrain the bear. Some bears can be retrained as it appears that Steve has had success doing that. And some just become problems and have to be put down. Something else Steve has done.
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FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
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Jun 29, 2013 - 06:49pm PT
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Apparently in Tuolumne their idea of prevention is to kill all bears that come into the camp ground.
They let them hang around half a season or so ---- then bad bear & they kill em.
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Edwardmw
climber
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Jun 29, 2013 - 07:25pm PT
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I live in El Portal. A bear pushed the back door open and came into the house, through the music room and into the kitchen. I was sitting on the couch watching tv, I looked up,saw the bear and yelled "Get out of here". The bear took off out the back door as quick as it could. What is all this sh#t about shooting bears and killing bears?
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Edwardmw
climber
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Jun 29, 2013 - 08:24pm PT
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Ron, would you care to elaborate?
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 29, 2013 - 08:39pm PT
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I've had one attempted break in, which I thwarted, and another break in, which resulted in the bear trashing my kitchen.
I'm bear aware, understand the nuances of living in bear country, and absolutely oppose the killing of problem bears.
Relocate them, fund public awareness programs even more, and fine the hell out of violators. This is the bears land too, we can find a happy medium.
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Edwardmw
climber
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Jun 29, 2013 - 08:46pm PT
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You know Ron, bears are pretty strong. If it is a hot summer day in El Portal and a bear feels like pushing the screen door in, not much we can do about it, does not mean we are careless with our food storage, or inviting bears in.
And, like Brandon said "I'm bear aware, understand the nuances of living in bear country, and absolutely oppose the killing of problem bears".
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John M
climber
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Jun 29, 2013 - 08:56pm PT
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Many here think you should move apparently.
Yes, I figured this must be what you believe, but that would not be correct. Most here want humans to take responsibility for their actions and not put the total responsibility to coexist on the animals.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jun 29, 2013 - 09:13pm PT
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I'm glad you folks are so positive about bears. The obvious solution is to trap the problem bears and relocate them to major cities in CA. where people appreciate them.
Glad I can help with your thinking this process through.
Maybe CA could pay NV, $10,000.00 for every caught and transported bear.
Life would be wonderful!
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John M
climber
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Jun 29, 2013 - 09:15pm PT
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Don't be silly. I already posted that the worst offenders should be put down. I just wish people would support more proactive measures, such as what Steve Searles does in Mammoth.
Edit: on second thought. go ahead and be silly.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jun 29, 2013 - 09:34pm PT
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I just hope RottingJohnny doesn't get run over on one of his night time forays.
He is also adept at opening car doors.
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FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
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Jun 29, 2013 - 09:50pm PT
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I agree the worst offenders should be put down. Find who is leaving the food out shoot them & leave the bears alone. If you don't like them move. You have that choice, they don't. They belong where they are.
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John M
climber
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Jun 29, 2013 - 09:56pm PT
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If you don't like them move.
I stand corrected, though I did say most.
Do you draw a line anywhere Frumy, or does all nature get to decide how and where you live?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jun 29, 2013 - 10:06pm PT
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Ron does have a point about indians adapting to technology.
At the Little Bighorn Custer still had single shot rifles and the indians mowed them down with repeaters and more effective tactics.
Bear problems are all human caused.
Just ask Werner. Its the stupid americans.
Fine the hell out of garbage violators and deploy rubber buckshot copiously (on both them and the bears).
I bet the bears are capable of learning faster than people.
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FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
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Jun 29, 2013 - 10:12pm PT
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I live where I want -- I get along just fine with nature.
I've had much worse than Ca. brown or black bears. Please.
Burntheman that's why I hate most humans.
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FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
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Jun 29, 2013 - 10:15pm PT
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Some are staffed by mostly bad people.
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burntheman
Trad climber
slt
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Jun 29, 2013 - 11:18pm PT
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Ron, your example is what I am fundamentally opposed to. Tax dollars funding large bureaucracies that have zero oversight. You show your conservative colors often but don't seem bothered by these govt. agencies despicable actions and fiscal irresponsibility.
how about govt. wildlife agencies management techniques resulting in pet deaths?
cyanide http://www.predatordefense.org/m44s_bella.htm
trap
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jun 29, 2013 - 11:54pm PT
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john m! Re your post:
Don't be silly. I already posted that the worst offenders should be put down. I just wish people would support more proactive measures, such as what Steve Searles does in Mammoth.
Edit: on second thought. go ahead and be silly.
They are soooo cute, and they taste just like pork.
Everyone should love them!!
Bears! The other white meat!
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FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
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Jun 30, 2013 - 01:20pm PT
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Like bankers don't do the same.
There is no need to kill bears.
There is a need to make your property bear safe if they are a problem where you live.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 30, 2013 - 02:28pm PT
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Ron, the point that you fail to mention is that wild bears become habitualized (is that a word?) through our poor habits of leaving trash or other consumables out. We created the problem and we should take action to remedy our screw ups.
Killing bears that we have trained to look for food at or near our homes isn't the appropriate action.
Training humans to respect our co-inhabitants is the proper approach.
I suspect that you agree with this simple statement, but will choose to disagree with it. Additionally, I suspect that your disagreement will be based on a knee jerk reaction in which I am always wrong.
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