Discussion Topic |
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This thread has been locked |
this just in
climber
north fork
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Apr 23, 2013 - 05:13pm PT
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Always keep kids on a leash!
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Plaidman
Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
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Apr 23, 2013 - 05:19pm PT
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I once wrote about climbing with a dog: Here is the link with pics:
http://blog.oregonlive.com/climbing/2010/01/rock_climbing_with_the_dog.html
Here is the story:
I would like to say first that it is not a good idea to take the dog when I go rock climbing. That being said I can say that I have done it, and the results have been mixed to say the least. Mostly it is a real pain.
For one it is not my dog. I don’t even like pets. They are too much work for the supposed gain. The dog is my wife’s. She loves that dog. I try to pretend that I don’t love it too. It seems to have wormed its way into my heart. Damn it!
The incidents I have had with that dog are the stuff of legend. Legendary patience, which the dog has tested numerous times over the years. Why this dog has not been left in the wilderness or shot by a farmer, I am still amazed and perplexed.
My wife and I were once climbing in a situation where we needed to have two ropes to rappel off a route. So the logical way for my wife to get the rope up to us was to trail it behind her as she climbed the route. I had done all the hard work and led the climb.
As she started up the route she noticed some resistance and looked down to see the dog lying on the rope. It was a nice soft place to lay down and it made perfect sense to the dog. My wife yelled at the dog and then had to roughly yank on the rope to get the dog to move.
It wasn’t an easy route to begin with and it wasn’t any easier with the added resistance from the dog. Then the dog started barking like a fiend at us, which was bad as we needed to keep a low profile in the area we were climbing in. The dog missed us.
That was a mild incident. The next one was a bit more infuriating. We were camping in Indian Creek, Utah near the Canyonlands National Park. The dog somehow got off the leash and off she went. When she saw the cows she really took off and started chasing them.
I told my wife. " If a farmer shoots the dog they are in the right. The cows are their livelihood and having a dog chase them all over the place is taking precious fat off the bones of those cows. So your dog may be dead by the end of the day."
I took off after the dog as I saw it as my responsibility to catch the dog if I could. We climbers are supposed to keep a low profile, share the land with the locals and leave no trace. I didn’t want to be the climber that gendered bad blood with the local farmers and thereby cause the climbing community to get a black eye or worse lose the privilege of use of such a beautiful place.
So I took off running after the dog. It must have been 80 or 90 degrees. Let’s just say that it was hot and so was I. I was planning on climbing with my partners that day not chasing some stupid dog.
After I had spent two hours and 5 miles of running around the desert chasing the dog chase the cows. We had managed to go over and through several canyons, fences and rivers. The cows finally ran into a box canyon and the dog pinned them in there and started barking. I grabbed the dog and started walking the five miles back to camp.
I was so mad I couldn’t talk. It took me days to get over that fiasco. The trip wasn’t ruined and I had won some “OH honey I love you so much points” for later use in time of need. The dog lived another day to tax my patience yet again.
My wife had gone on vacation and I saw this as an opportunity to take off into the deep woods with my son and his friend. There is a place I wanted to climb that was remote and I thought well it would be good to take the dog out.
Well normally when we get out in the woods we will let her off leash and as long as we put her back on before we get to the car it is not a problem. Well there was a problem this time. The dog got scent of the elk and freaked out and didn’t want to come home.
So the chase was on. She would not be caught. So we got in the car and started driving. The dog followed the car. Great. But the dog can’t run over 10 or 15 miles an hour. So on down the road we go. I have no cell phone coverage so I can’t call anyone to let them know what is going on. So after about 3 hours and 8 miles of trying to get the dog to get into the car we had to leave her and drive to a phone to make sure that someone didn’t call out a search for us.
We drove back to a campground where the dog was trying to be caught by some campers in the area. They helped us for hours try to get the dog. Then one of them had the idea that she had some tranquilizers that we could drug the dog with. This sounded great to me so we put them into a hotdog and feed it to the dog. The dog passed out and off we went home.
If this didn’t teach me a lesson it should have. Several months later I needed to go out to a remote climbing area in the deep woods by myself. Again I thought “Poor dog. She really needs to get out. I will take her with me.” Bad idea.
I took her off leash and spent the rest of the day trying to get her back. I finished my task and started home and still couldn’t get the dog. I did the drive down the road thing again and the dog followed slowly. I didn’t have cell phone reception again and didn’t have it for over 35 miles. I drove 5 miles an hour for 7 hours. Every once in a while I would open the door and yell to the dog “Are you ready to get into the car?”. She wasn't. It was awful.
Finally I got to a place where I could call my wife and have her drive out to meet us. When she got there the dog ran right up to her and jumped into the car.
I don't even think about taking the dog to Smith Rock. Too many people and the area is not really dog friendly. This is an area where a dog could be a nuisance to other climbers. The regulations require that dogs must be on a leash at all times, Dogs can not be tied up to a tree or rock.
So the moral of the story is:
Don’t take dogs out to climbing areas.
And if you do make sure you watch them so they don’t bother other climbers and or area livestock.
Always keep them on a leash.
And if they can’t be trusted around other people, leave them at home.
I have all kinds of points saved up now with my wife. So if I want to go on a climbing trip or go do something with the guys. All I have to say is DOG.
D-O-O-O-O-O-G.
Plaidman
Why is patience a virtue?
Cause not many people have it.
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TwistedCrank
climber
Dingleberry Gulch, Ideeho
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Apr 23, 2013 - 05:24pm PT
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Seven people and a dog got out of a Subaru?
Were they dressed like clowns?
Did they smell of Patchouli?
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Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
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Apr 23, 2013 - 05:34pm PT
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Hey Guys,
I will send out an email to the BOD right now on the issue. Thanks for bringing this up as this is exactly the kind of stuff we need to be vigilant about to ensure we maintain access.
CRAGS highlighted that climbers are a strongly self policing group as part of our efforts to getting the place reopened. Hopefully we can get to the bottom of this.
I am not sure if it is just me, but I really have lost a lot of faith in humanity over the last few years. I once thought climbers typically a "better" group of people than your average cross-section of the public. Unfortunately, it is being disproved time and time again. Head-shaking news friends :(
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Apr 23, 2013 - 05:46pm PT
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Please do bring you dogs to the crag. I love dogs. If you can't/won't train them, I will help. You may think I'm rough, but they always come around eventually.
Fuk people who don't like dogs at the crag. And fuk people who don't realize when they are in sensitive areas.
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Apr 23, 2013 - 05:48pm PT
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F*#k, those geese would grow up and get shot by one of the Rons for dinner or killed for shitting on the country club lawn anyhow.
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Apr 23, 2013 - 05:58pm PT
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I went to the Ouray Pool wall a few weeks back and as I was approaching the base of my intended route I was accosted by four, unleashed barking dogs . . . imagine that! I told the dogs to shut up and "go home" and they backed off a bit. The climbers owning the animals, two dudes and three gals, were about 100 yards away and made no effort to come over and remove their offensive curs, they just kind of lamely called to them. Two of the four dogs did not listen and continued to growl menacingly and still no effort was made to come over and physically remove them. I decided to avoid conflict and started my set up and ignored the last lingering pooch.
Then one of the women, without apology or remorse said "She (her bitch dog) really is a sweet animal." I thought, wow, thanks chick, I couldn't tell with all the barking.
Really now, how ignorant and insensitive could these people be? They are coming to a crag near you!
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Apr 23, 2013 - 05:59pm PT
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We were up there a few weeks ago with my niece's little maltese, lahso, or something mixed mini-dog.
That place is dog central, and most were with hikers just passing through.
Every one was on leash, or very well behaved.
It's par for the course that the bad apples stand out like a sore thumbs. And bad analogies and idioms are irritating too.
Floorabove's ex-lax may have to be a part of my first aid kit now. Or maybe a nice pot brownie so they have to carry their sleeping dog home.
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DanaB
climber
CT
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Apr 23, 2013 - 06:18pm PT
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Two of the four dogs did not listen
How many dogs are trained to listen and obey?
< 0.1%.
You cannot talk to dog owners
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bp
Trad climber
Placerville, Ca
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Apr 23, 2013 - 06:32pm PT
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Well, here is my side of the story.
My name is Brian Poulsen. I am a CRAGS Board Member, and have been very closely involved in the reopening of the Auburn Quarry. On Sunday morning, on my way into the Quarry to climb with my partner, I stopped and offered a ride to a handfull of other climbers that were walking in (some I knew, others I didn't). I was not the scheduled volunteer for that day, and normally, I don't drive up, unless I am the scheduled volunteer. On this day, however, I inteded to replace some missing bolts on the Memorial Wall (during the 10-year climbing ban, a number of routes were vandalized and bolts were stripped of hangers or chopped. )Rather than walk in with my heavy drill and bolting gear, I opted to drive. Apparently this offended the person who started this thread, and for that I apologize. I can see how arriving in a car with a bunch of people may have given the wrong impression, but I routinely offer rides in and out when I am the scheduled volunteer and drive in or out of the Quarry.
One of the individuals who I picked up on the way in also had a dog. When we arrived at the Quarry, I notified him that the Park requires dog's to be on leash. As I noted above, I was not the CRAGS volunteer on duty at the time. Even if I was, however, CRAGS volunteers do not have any authority whatever to enforce Park rules. We merely inform climbers what the rules are, and ask them to comply.
During the course of the day, it is my understanding that the dog did find and kill several goslings. This was serious tragedy.
I was not present when the person that started this thread confronted the dog owner, and cannot confirm his response. That said, I strongly disagree with the notion that the dog owner "didn't care." I recieved a personal email from him that very evening, wherein he expressed his deep regret and apology.
Later in the afternoon, I did "break out a hammer drill" to replace a missing bolt on one of the highly trafficked routes on the Memorial Wall. Presently there are at least three other routes on that wall that need to be mostly or entirely re-equiped with new bolts and anchors, and I intended to do more work, but had failed to bring up enough of the right equipment. I patched the old hole with epoxy since it was not reusable and drilled a new hole. I was very careful to camoflauge the old hole. I have done and will continue to do bolt replacement work in the Quarry on my own personal time, not as a CRAGS volunteer.
Clearly, the person who started the thread is upset at what happended with the goslings, and justifyably so. CRAGS will soon post a sign on the sign-board at the bottom of the Quarry encouraging climbers to leave their dogs at home. For future reference, please be aware that this sign-baord already has the contact information for Park rangers and CRAGS. I regret that the person that started this thread did not contact CRAGS directly to express his/her concerns.
In the future, I believe it would be most constructive to contact CRAGS directly if you have concerns about CRAGS volunteers or climbing related activities you observe in the Quarry.
Finally, I am profoundly sorry for the loss of the gosslings. I hope we can all learn from this tragedy.
Brian
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Apr 23, 2013 - 06:35pm PT
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There are a couple of issues, here.
first, the issue of the geese:
Canadian Geese are federally protected under the migratory bird act:
http://www.wildgoosechasers.com/law.php
Which says:
This Act makes it illegal to harm or injure a goose and damage or move its eggs and nest, without a Federal permit. Not complying with the Federal Act can result in fines ranging from $5,000 to $10,000 and this also applies to an untrained dog’s actions.
so they were breaking a federal law. I'm not positive, but you might have been fully justified in shooting the dog.
Second, the issue of reporting.
Don't you guys get it? Are you incapable of education? You are conspiring to hide the commission of a crime, probably a separate offense in and of itself. You have documented your crime nicely.
What you are doing, when you talk about "taking care of it internally" is EXACTLY the same thing as the Bishops taking care of pedophiles "internally". It is EXACTLY the same as taking care of Jerry Sandusky "internally".
What normal people call it is a COVERUP.
You could not be more wrong about how agencies look at such things. They look at how the climbing community looks at protecting the resource.....or more importantly, protecting themselves?
Do you want them thinking "climbers will protect sites and the associated values as a partner", or "climbers will cover up crimes to protect each other"?
If the climbing community wants to engender TRUST, it must act in a TRUSTWORTHY manner.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Apr 23, 2013 - 06:55pm PT
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Dogs don't belong at crags unless well managed but wolverines are okay.....saw one at the base of the Cobra Pillar in the Ruth Gorge.
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Getch
Mountain climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Apr 23, 2013 - 07:03pm PT
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A criminal act requires intent. I seriously doubt you could prove that the irresponsible climbers intended for their dog to kill the geese. Also, this is a civil violation, something completely different from the exploitation of children.
To make the appropriate analogy, you would like to hold season ticket holders responsible for supporting the PSU football team.
No you would not be justified in shooting the dog for eating geese. They are protected by the migratory bird act so hunting can be regulated... do go on about education though...
Like many things there is one who spoils it for the bunch. I take my dog to crags regularly. I have never met a person who does not enjoy my dog. She runs, mountain bikes, canyoneers, and skis with me. She also listens exactly to what I say. She might be the exception but then again we arent all out there chipping holds and leaving cigarette butts everywhere. This was an isolated incident, not the norm.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Oakland, CA
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Apr 23, 2013 - 07:13pm PT
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Thanks Brian for working to reopen the crag and maintain the routes.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Apr 23, 2013 - 07:31pm PT
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Nice list Kevin....you pretty much nailed it!
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Norwegian
Trad climber
the tip of god's middle finger
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Apr 23, 2013 - 07:34pm PT
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up in strawberry a bull-dog
type attacked my idle border collie.
i layed into it line-backer like
for it was clamped on my dog's neck.
it turned on me
so i shoved my closed fist
down it's throat.
i wore a pearl necklace
for the gastro-recoil of my fist,
but me an my dog escaped.
the owner was aghast.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Apr 23, 2013 - 08:18pm PT
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A criminal act requires intent. I seriously doubt you could prove that the irresponsible climbers intended for their dog to kill the geese. Also, this is a civil violation, something completely different from the exploitation of children.
Odd definition.
So thowing rocks off El Cap for fun, and killing a climber, is not a criminal act, because they didn't "mean" to....and you have to prove otherwise?
So failing to curb your wheels, where it is legally required and posted to do so, and the car breaks loose and kills someone, is not a criminal act, because you didn't mean to?
I think your definition doesn't hold water.
The TYPE of crime is certainly different than child porn, but everyone understands a coverup.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Apr 23, 2013 - 08:28pm PT
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Reckless endangerment can result in a felony charge and requires no intent.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 23, 2013 - 08:40pm PT
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We were attacked yesterday as we drove by Lost Horse (JTree) on the dirt
road by a Doberman. I was in the back seat and the monster was just
outside my door. I opened the door trying to entice him to stick his
head in but my carmates pleaded with me to desist based on their belief
that we should go back and do it to the owner. I agreed.
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Apr 23, 2013 - 08:42pm PT
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